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 Post subject: Bluewater Mist (14'10", solo).....anyone paddle?
PostPosted: April 26th, 2010, 12:32 pm 
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Joined: June 19th, 2007, 12:22 pm
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Location: maine, usa
Just a feeler for anyone who's got any time in this solo. Am putting together a list, then...as always, having missed a demo day or two...will try to demo somewhere...
Solo flatwater canoe that's efficient yet can handle some wind and small waves. Often meet up with ex-fellow-workers coming up into Maine's woods and paddling some small and large ponds = usually some wind & chop.
Right now Swift's Osprey and Hemlock's Peregrine lead the pack...but Bluewater's Mist...I need to dwell over the specs a little...


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 Post subject: Re: Bluewater Mist (14'10", solo).....anyone paddle?
PostPosted: April 27th, 2010, 8:21 pm 
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Location: Lower Saranac Lake, NY
Bluewater's Mist is out of an old, and unauthorized Sawyer Autumn Mist Mold. It was a pretty good solo tripper in the 80's, but the bubble sides are wet and unstable when heeled, the hull lacks rocker, and BW won't say where they got the mold and refuses to pay DY royalties, so.... Why would you be thinking about that?

If you're looking at Peregrine, which is ~ the Curtis Nomad, DY designed in 87, you should also consider Bell's Merlin II, which was the last solo tripper DY designed, ~'96.

If looking at Swift's Osprey, consider Wenonah's Argosy and Bell's YellowStone solo, all three with enough bow rocker to be river trippers but skegged sterns to help with tracking, which compromises maneuverability.

If you have a forward stroke that ends at your knee, try Colden's WildFire or Merrimack's Baboosic, both with symmetrical rocker.


Last edited by Charlie Wilson on April 28th, 2010, 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bluewater Mist (14'10", solo).....anyone paddle?
PostPosted: April 27th, 2010, 8:54 pm 
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If you're looking at Peregrine, which is ~ the Curtis Nomad, DY designed in 87, you should also consider Bell's Merlin II, which was the last solo tripper DY designed, ~'96.


In anything other than the foam bottomed UL layup that is. The bottom got flat.

Being as I have a "thing" about MerlinII and Peregrine and Nomad and the Swift Heron..all the same relations, I currently have (here in Maine) all except the Merlin II (which I broke).

You are welcome to test paddle. The Peregrine( not a DY design but an adaptation) is sticky under a load as there seems to be no rocker and the bow is way under water even when trimmed properly. The Nomad with the same load is bow light and the bow is skimming the water at the stem. Ergo its much more maneuverable. The Heron is a bubble boat and more skittish under heel, and hard to find too. But quick.

If I had Peregrine on Chesuncook I would want a spraycover as the bow buries. I think I may take the Nomad up there in May, without spraycover. It did the Gulf of Mexico just fine and was .5 mph faster under GPS timing than Peregrine.

Last weekend was an oddball. Dead calm for the first 11 miles and a freaking tailwind with two foot seas the last mile. Nomad did fine correcting easily yet maintaining a downwind course without excessive weathercocking. I did not have a load to trim the stern down.

There is a Nomad in NJ for sale on pnet for eight hundred and my husband works in CT..

I have knee time in the Osprey too and its got a full flared bow and is more maneuverable than Peregrine.

That Mist is for a smaller paddler though if your total load is under 240 it might fit. Depends on your knee spread. It also tends to be a go ahead not much rocker boat which are more trim sensitive. I think it would behave similar to Peregrine under load.

Sawyergeorge over at Pnet might have some more knowledge firsthand. I have not paddled Autumn Mist.


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 Post subject: Re: Bluewater Mist (14'10", solo).....anyone paddle?
PostPosted: April 28th, 2010, 9:34 am 
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Location: maine, usa
Thanks you two....
HA!...Charlie I'm frothing at the mouth when I get into you & Colden's website with their versions. Schedule is very tight this year...would like to shoot over there for the caneoing festival;-)...but just have enough time to make for paddling up in the woods. Yes...a MerlinII is definitely in the brain....

litteredcanoe......**Hey, will you send me info as to available time of months(days/times)....for me to shoot over from Bangor..to wherever you are, and hop in the Nomad sometime. Right now...Wednesdays & Thursdays are open, but with a week's notice I can easily bail from anyday....convenient for your schedule.

SteveD


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 Post subject: Re: Bluewater Mist (14'10", solo).....anyone paddle?
PostPosted: April 28th, 2010, 10:14 am 
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Charlie Wilson wrote:
BW won't say where they got the mold and refuses to pay DY royalties, so....


Last year at the WCHA Assembly, I asked DY about that mold, and of course, he was well aware of it. He said he didn't expect to get compensation for the progeny of the mold, but said he requested that his name not be used in association with the hull. So what does BW do?

Quote:
Bluewater Canoes Mist 15 is an exact replica of the original "Autumn Mist" designed by David Yost for the Sawyer Canoe Company.


:roll:


I've never paddled one, but I'd like to think DY's designs have evolved along the way. Especially, I don't like that skegged stern at all. I suspect most folks would be much happier in a Merlin II as a solo tripper.

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 Post subject: Re: Bluewater Mist (14'10", solo).....anyone paddle?
PostPosted: April 28th, 2010, 10:23 pm 
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So what does BW do?

Quote:
Bluewater Canoes Mist 15 is an exact replica of the original "Autumn Mist" designed by David Yost for the Sawyer Canoe Company.



BK.....No where on either Blue Waters web site or their brochures does it mention DY name. We've talked about this before. You are pulling a quote from some one else's web site. :tsk:

This is from Blue Waters web site......."The Mist

The beauty of the Mist. We can all imagine this image. Paddling a Bluewater Mist evokes an attitude and modd that closely resembles the feeling you get as you paddle through the morning mist on crisp summer morning. The Mist is a performance solo boat, excellent for casual paddling or expedition tripping. A first class performer with a hull design which allows you to keep astride with most tandem canoes. The hollowed entry and exit lines of the hull creates the unbeatable efficiency, even if you challenge it to Class I or Class II whitewater. If yo are considering the endless possibilities of a solo canoe, the Mist will always perform to your highly skilled demands."

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Al Greve http://www.canoewateradventuring.ca South Western Ontario's canoeing specialist



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 Post subject: Re: Bluewater Mist (14'10", solo).....anyone paddle?
PostPosted: April 28th, 2010, 10:27 pm 
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As for the Mist..... I'll be instructing in one next week. I like it a lot.

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Al Greve http://www.canoewateradventuring.ca South Western Ontario's canoeing specialist



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 Post subject: Re: Bluewater Mist (14'10", solo).....anyone paddle?
PostPosted: April 28th, 2010, 10:57 pm 
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BK.....No where on either Blue Waters web site or their brochures does it mention DY name. We've talked about this before. You are pulling a quote from some one else's web site.


Thats true technically. It wasnt the Blue Waters site, but another dealer. So the condition that DY wanted his name not be mentioned has been met.

Still it irks me.


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 Post subject: Re: Bluewater Mist (14'10", solo).....anyone paddle?
PostPosted: April 29th, 2010, 7:38 am 
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Kim, I wouldn't exactly say that the Mist is for the smaller paddler. Even at 14'10" it was originally previously designed by the designer who wishes not to be mentioned, for a larger paddler looking to haul a load... I can provide you a quote from some of the well written sales brochures and magazine ads by an editor known as "Uncle" who worked for a previouscanoe company here in Michigan. If you like paddling sit and switch, and you like the unique feel of that generation of Sawyer boats, you may like the Mist.

While I agree with Charlie that the Mist is a mid 1980s canoe, and there are newer canoe models, I'm not always convinced that newer models necessarily beget better boats. I was out in my late 1980s Blackhawk last night on Lake Michigan. A pure joy to paddle despite it's age.

PK


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 Post subject: Re: Bluewater Mist (14'10", solo).....anyone paddle?
PostPosted: April 29th, 2010, 8:26 am 
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Location: Rattlesnake Pond ME
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Optimum capacity120 - 260 lb


Now there is day tripping and there is camping.

Quote:
Rocker 0.5"


When you are camping and get toward the upper performance limit, the bow gets buried (plus is trim sensitive). The depth of the boat is nice for big Maine lakes but the maneuverability may suffer under a larger paddler with camping gear.

When you are daytripping its another whole ball game. I agree that some of those older designs are good designs and I am having a ball with my Curtis Nomad circa 1989(but new to me). Looking forward to Paul Meyer resurrecting some of those older designs with modern construction.

Anyway the OP and I are getting together soon so he can evaluate some on his short list.


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 Post subject: Re: Bluewater Mist (14'10", solo).....anyone paddle?
PostPosted: April 29th, 2010, 10:02 am 
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Yeah, the Autumn Mist was designed to be a solo tripping canoe for the US public... so maybe a trip to BWCA, a week down the AuSable here in MI, or the Buffalo River. It's not a two week solo for Canadian tripping that includes whitewater. I'll post copy of what I have from Sawyer tonight.

PK


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 Post subject: Re: Bluewater Mist (14'10", solo).....anyone paddle?
PostPosted: April 29th, 2010, 11:06 am 
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littleredcanoe wrote:
Thats true technically. It wasnt the Blue Waters site, but another dealer. So the condition that DY wanted his name not be mentioned has been met.

Still it irks me.


Irks me, too.

Alan, sorry, I really forgot about the previous thread. I had associated that one with "Bell bashing". :roll:

Kiddin' :lol:

Look, why wouldn't anyone just give the guy his due? What do these companies pay, something like 2%/hull? Is that gonna break the bank? Seems they'd get a lot more mileage by paying DY and getting to use his name. He just happens to be one of the most famous paddle craft designers ever. Name recognition is worth a hell of a lot more than a lousy 2% IMHO.

BTW, how do you think it compares to the Merlin II? As a top WW guy, I'd think you'd like a more maneuverable boat than the Mist appears to be.

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 Post subject: Re: Bluewater Mist (14'10", solo).....anyone paddle?
PostPosted: April 29th, 2010, 12:32 pm 
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The Mist isn't that bad a turning boat, it like all the Sawyer boats turns best with an outside heel. It fights all the way around with an inside heel. So no freestyle in this boat.... well actually you can do lots of wedges and posts.

PK


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 Post subject: Re: Bluewater Mist (14'10", solo).....anyone paddle?
PostPosted: April 29th, 2010, 12:47 pm 
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pknoerr wrote:
The Mist isn't that bad a turning boat, it like all the Sawyer boats turns best with an outside heel. It fights all the way around with an inside heel. So no freestyle in this boat.... well actually you can do lots of wedges and posts.

PK


That is true for many minimally rockered boats. I use wedges and posts all the time when tripping. The Peregrine really only responds to those two manuevers.

Tom MacKenzie was up here training in a Summersong doing bouy turns for USCKA certification. Posts were the more stable. I dont recall him even trying a wedge as its unbraced. Hit and switch and outside heeled turns brings out the best in those go ahead type boats.


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 Post subject: Re: Bluewater Mist (14'10", solo).....anyone paddle?
PostPosted: April 30th, 2010, 7:58 pm 
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I forgot to reply about the performance load limit of the Autumn Mist. The reincarnated Sawyer Canoe lists the Performance Load Capacity at 300. That jives with my early 1990s Sawyer catalog. Uncle Harry wouldn't have listed anything but a TRUE Performance Capacity. Depending on your size you should be able to trip for 10 days of flatwater below 300 pounds.

PK


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