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 Post subject: St. Croix Shame
PostPosted: August 5th, 2005, 2:30 pm 
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Joined: February 17th, 2004, 5:00 pm
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Location: Hinton, West Virginia, USA
I just returned from the St. Croix and have never seen a more beautiful place that was trashed by her own people. In three days, I saw about 200 drunk canadians that thought the only place to dispose of their waste (personal) and beer bottles was in the cleansing waters of the St. Croix River


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PostPosted: August 5th, 2005, 3:29 pm 
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Joined: May 11th, 2004, 9:29 am
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Location: Woodstock, NB
i have cleaned up messes from BOTH americain AND canadians on that particular river. unfortunately there are idiots evreywhere you go and have actually NO idea the harm they are doing.
My office is on the trans canada highway. ( new 4 lane in the next 3 years). evrey week, i spend 30 min picking up garbage out of the ditch before i mow the lawn. EVREY WEEK.
In this wonderful time that we live. People really don;t give a damn about nothing but themselves. but when the st croix river becomes full of shit and garbage they will be the first ones to cry foul.

would a 0.25 deposit on all things disposable AND recylable be a an incentive to prevent these idiots from doing this, oor at least slow it down ? prolly not and some may even say its another tax.

evrey chance you get. tell off someone who you catch littering. let them know how inconsiderate they are. if only 1 of 100 were shamed into bcoming better people then the world would be a better place for sure.

there are signs say the fine for littering is $1000. but i have NEVER heard of ANYONE gettin a ticket for it.

golden rule baby.

thanks. end of my rant.

later
jp


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PostPosted: August 5th, 2005, 4:18 pm 
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Joined: April 27th, 2003, 10:25 am
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Quote:
I saw about 200 drunk canadians that thought the only place to dispose of their waste (personal) and beer bottles was in the cleansing waters of the St. Croix River


How could you tell they were all Canadians? 8)

Seems to me there are a few problems south of the 49th as well but maybe that's only the Canadian tourists. :roll:


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 Post subject: st croix shame
PostPosted: August 5th, 2005, 5:00 pm 
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Joined: February 17th, 2004, 5:00 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Hinton, West Virginia, USA
in response, we tried to talk to most of the people, they were heading to a locals party down river. yes we do have problems south of the 49th, but in 40+ years of paddling, nothing have i ever witnessed to that scale.


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PostPosted: August 5th, 2005, 5:30 pm 
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Think you'll find, as Palmer mentioned, "unfortunately there are idiots evreywhere you go"

Lots of Canadians take a great deal of pride and put forth a great deal of effort to make sure this river remains for future generations in as pristine a state as possible.There have been a number of initiatives to protect the St Croix from both sides of the line, Maine & NB.

The St Croix has been designated a Canadian Heritage River although it is clearly recognized as a natural resource of both our countries. Everyone involved deserves a well earned tip of the hat for what they are doing.

If you venture to this area again and see any evidence of irresponsibility on the part of Canadians or anyone else please remember they would be the "few" and not the many. Report them to the nearest available ranger station or border area you come upon and include as much detail about their description as possible.
You can be 100% assured I would do exactly that be they Canadian or US or visitors from abroad.


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 Post subject: St. Croix Shame
PostPosted: August 5th, 2005, 5:40 pm 
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Joined: February 17th, 2004, 5:00 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Hinton, West Virginia, USA
To Me and Mutt,
I did not mean to infer anything negative about canadians in general, I have traveled extensively in your country for more than 20 years, I have found most canadians to be more enviromentally responsible than most americans, that is one reason I was so shocked, I have always respected you and your country for the beauty and cleanliness.and that is why I travel almost a thousand miles to enjoy your country.


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PostPosted: August 5th, 2005, 5:56 pm 
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Joined: April 27th, 2003, 10:25 am
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NRP, I apologize if I seemed a little irked with my reply.

You mentioned, "trashed by her own people" but I for one don't feel much kinship to anyone from this country who shows a disregard or disrespect for any river.

I expect I may have not been popular with the group you mentioned because, like you, I would have been VERY unimpressed to see that happening.



All the best,


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PostPosted: August 5th, 2005, 6:54 pm 
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Joined: December 2nd, 2002, 7:00 pm
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Location: Grand Haven, Michigan U.S.A.
Palmer wrote:
In this wonderful time that we live. People really don;t give a damn about nothing but themselves. but when the st croix river becomes full of shit and garbage they will be the first ones to cry foul.

would a 0.25 deposit on all things disposable AND recylable be a an incentive to prevent these idiots from doing this, oor at least slow it down ? prolly not and some may even say its another tax.


JP, not sure that the deposit will solve the problem, though it will help. Here in Michigan we have a $0.10 depost on soft drink and beer cans. It helped alot in keeping the roads clean. But we now have a problem with the water and non-carbonated beverage bottles. There is currently attempts to pass that too. The beverage industry is lobbying heavily against it.

But I can tell you that alot of beer cans end up in our rivers. Most are probably the result of inexperienced paddlers upsetting, and not having either the skill nor the desire to go get the loose cans. We pick up a fair number... both looking for "live" ones and to keep the river clean. We remove all the waste... bottles, cans, flip flops (think how logical those are as canoe footwear!!!!), t-shirts, cups, and everything else. We come off with a bag of returnables which we recycle... but the bag of non-recycleable stuff is much bigger. So maybe it helps a little.

PK


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PostPosted: August 6th, 2005, 7:38 pm 
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Joined: February 24th, 2002, 7:00 pm
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Location: HFX, Nova Scotia canada
I have seen some really stupid things done by both 'Mericans and "drunk canadians" in my many years of paddling on the St Croix. The only solution is a reservation system for both river time and campsites. This will keep the clowns at home and leave the river to those who appreciate its beauty. The partiers will just go somewhere else.
Palmer, unfortunatly drunk and stupid doesn't care about a $.25 deposit.

Scoops


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PostPosted: August 6th, 2005, 7:54 pm 
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Joined: June 20th, 2001, 7:00 pm
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Location: Scarbados, Ontario Canada
scoops wrote:
...., unfortunatly drunk and stupid doesn't care about a $.25 deposit.

A deposit system is not "failsafe", but it helps tremendously as others will pick up bottles they find and then cash in the deposit. It would be a big step forward towards addressing the trash problem.

In Ontario, we have a deposit system for beer bottles, but none for aluminum cans. For every single abandonned beer bottle I come across, I see lots of aluminum cans out there but hardly any beer bottles. The industry doen't want deposit systems because they complicate the business: they have put processes and facilities in place to handle the returns. (They fight it even though they can make the customer cover any incurred expenses - an excellent example of the state needing to keep a lid on commerce to guard the public's interest).


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PostPosted: August 6th, 2005, 8:17 pm 
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Location: Scarbados, Ontario Canada
scoops wrote:
... The only solution is a reservation system for both river time and campsites. This will keep the clowns at home and leave the river to those who appreciate its beauty.


You have more faith in the powers of a reservation system than I have. It would help a bit, though, as long as there is enforcement. And enforcement can be expensive. I guess as long as the fines cover the cost of that extra effort, it might be worth while ... :wink:


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PostPosted: August 6th, 2005, 9:21 pm 
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Quote:
The only solution is a reservation system for both river time and campsites. This will keep the clowns at home and leave the river to those who appreciate its beauty.

Even if this were hard to enforce it's likely the best option in the long haul. The St Croix isn't one a 1000 choices in this area, it's a rare resource and deserves some effort to make sure it stays that way. User fees are not uncommon these days nor is pre-booking for time in an area.

Quote:
I guess as long as the fines cover the cost of that extra effort, it might be worth while


In my mind it's really hard to put a price on something priceless......


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PostPosted: August 7th, 2005, 5:36 am 
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Location: Scarbados, Ontario Canada
Komatiq wrote:

Quote:
I guess as long as the fines cover the cost of that extra effort, it might be worth while

In my mind it's really hard to put a price on something priceless......

I'm trying to be practical here: if it costs $80,000 to keep an enforcement officer employed for six months, and this officer writes an average of 20 tickets during that time, the average penalty should be $4,000. It would make a difference in people's attitudes, I am sure....


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PostPosted: August 7th, 2005, 1:56 pm 
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Joined: February 24th, 2002, 7:00 pm
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Location: HFX, Nova Scotia canada
Being a Heritage River there should be a reservation system, paid reservations much like a park(which I would gladly pay), an agreement in place to keep water levels at a decent level with Domtar( I believe), designated campsites with fire pits and thunder boxes and I believe that all will be good. This will keep all the idiots off the river and they will just go get drunk in the woods somewhere. Just my thoughts, I could be wrong.

Scoops


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PostPosted: August 7th, 2005, 2:07 pm 
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Joined: April 27th, 2003, 10:25 am
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Here are a couple of links that have some info on what is being done by folks on both sides,
http://www.ijc.org/conseil_board/st_croix_river/en/stcroix_home_accueil.htm
http://www.chrs.ca/Main_e.htm


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