View topic - FLY IN COSTS

It is currently November 27th, 2020, 3:49 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: FLY IN COSTS
PostPosted: October 23rd, 2006, 2:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: October 23rd, 2006, 2:13 pm
Posts: 5
Location: United Kingdom
I am in the initial planning stages of organising a wilderness caneoing trip for 6 paddlers in open boats. We are experienced wilderness canoe tripists but have never flown in to a drop off point before.

We are looking at the Horton, Coppermine and Hood rivers but require more information on the finance apsect before going firm on which river to canoe.

We have the added cost of getting ourselves to Canada. I would be most appreciated for any information on fly in costs to these rivers, and if one is significantly different to the other. Also any info on rental costs for canoes ant recommendations or otherwise of outfitters.

Many thanks and I look forward to your replies.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 23rd, 2006, 3:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: June 22nd, 2004, 4:45 pm
Posts: 1218
Location: Canmore AB
John;
Do a quick glance down the NWT and Nunavut pages as there are quite a few threads on Outfitters and Air Service.
A quick note about what to ask for with the type of aircraft and capacities:
The twin otter can take 3-4 boats inside along with 6-8passengers. I've only seen three boats inside but I think if you nest one of them inside another you may be able to get 4 in and 8 passengers. Not 100% sure of this so ask.
The single turbo otter can take three boats and six passengers. Boats are strapped exterior to pontoons and one is nested.
Air Tindi can tell you.
When you rent boats be sure to tell them you need to nest the boats for flying so they will rent you the right boats.
There is lots of experience on this board so once you start to narrow things down ask away for more specifics.

Hugh

_________________
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
M.T.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 23rd, 2006, 6:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: August 19th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 1879
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario Canada
Hi johncullen,

The Coppermine might be your most cost-effective trip. You can charter a bushplane from Yellowknife to your put in. (Air Tindi is excellent, and has a Twin Otter for a good deal for 6 people and 3 boats). You can paddle to the sea and finish at Kugluktuk, which has regular scheduled commercial flights back to Yellowknife in combo passenger/cargo planes. Half the plane is for cargo and the other half seats, so your canoes and gear fly back with you, for really reasonable rates. When I did the trip back in 1997, I flew back from Kugluktuk with my boat and gear for about $400, which is unreal cheap.

You have the luxury of an open-ended schedule because you can literally walk to the airport office in Kugluktuk and buy a ticket. Do your research (things may have changed), but I think the flights are every other day, so its great service.

If you chose the Coppermine, I recommend you start way up the system, starting at Lac DeGras. From Lac DeGras down to the end of Point Lake, it is magnificent Barrenlands. And some really fun and runnable rapids too, and great fishing. At the end of Point Lake, you get back into some trees, and it takes a while to get back out of them again. So don't miss the upper river lake country if you have the time. Most people start the trip half way down at Rocknest, which is in the trees, and they have missed half of the river, and it takes a while to get back out of the trees.

You will get windbound on the big lakes in the upper section, but that's more time for hiking! Just plan enough days. I solo paddled from the west end of Lac Degras to Kugluktuk in 41 days. I recommend starting no earlier than about July 10. That gives enough time for the ice to clear for a landing at the west end of Lac Degras in the average year. Start earlier, and you may lose part of your trip distance and have to land further down where the current has melted the ice.

Starting up high on Lac DeGras also gives the river some time to come down from high water. There are some nasty rapids in high water from the outflow of Rocknest. Some people have a bad scene there because they start there too early in early July when the water is too high. Have fun on the Barrens on the upper river, and give the river time to come down to comfortable levels, and get there to Rocknest near the end of July. I solo ran all the big famous rapids in the lower section: muskox, sandstone, escape, all because by the time I got there in August, the water had come down to reasonable levels. Get there too early and you may have some long portages.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 23rd, 2006, 7:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: October 27th, 2003, 1:41 pm
Posts: 136
Location: Fairbanks AK
Also peruse the excellent trip report at
http://www.myccr.com/canoedb/routeDetai ... outeid=456
which should answer some of your questions.
If you put in on the Parent river to save money on air fare you may have to do a lot of wading. I went up the Parent and the rocky shallow bottom was covered with red, white and blue gel coat.

If Air Tindi does not treat you right try Arctic Sunwest.

Douglas


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 25th, 2006, 12:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: October 23rd, 2006, 2:13 pm
Posts: 5
Location: United Kingdom
Guys

Thanks for the replies. I have tried to access the Air Tindi website but it has been down the last couple of days. So still in the dark regarding prices to be put down on a river.

I received a quote for a flight back from Kugluktuk to Yellowknife of $520pp. Is this a good price :-?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 25th, 2006, 4:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: July 22nd, 2002, 7:00 pm
Posts: 1878
John,
the site is up and running now but it's macromedia dependant.
Send an email to their sales/marketing fellow Travis.
travis@airtindi.com
phoning would cost a fortune but his number is 1-867-669-8205

good reliable outfit.
Ted

_________________
To the Silent Places
www.parkerclan.ca


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 25th, 2006, 5:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: August 19th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 1879
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario Canada
Hi Johncullen,

Quote:
I received a quote for a flight back from Kugluktuk to Yellowknife of $520pp. Is this a good price


I need more information on your quote. Was that just a passenger ticket or does that include your canoe and gear? If that is a complete package, it is a fantastic price. But I suspect there are some extra charges. Usually gear and canoe have to be weighed, and there is a cargo cost based on weight.

VERY IMPORTANT: Check the details for flying back with a canoe. They may charge a volume cost. If there is a volume cost, ask if the volume can include stuffing the packs and paddles inside the canoe. It should, but sometimes they have mixed up rules. Sometimes the grunt you have on the phone does not really know the rules and will say the packs are extra volume, but I think one should insist (talk to the manager if necessary), that packs are zero volume because they can be packed inside the boat. It would be good to get the "rules" in writing before you leave, because the folks at the ticket counter in Kugluktuk may have a different understanding.

They cannot give you a cargo price because they have to weigh it, which is reasonable and makes sense. When I flew back from Kugluktuk, there was no volume charge, just a weight charge. Canoes weigh very little, less than an adult person, so sometimes the rates are excellent.

Generally the rates from Kugluktuk are very reasonable and the airline uses weight.


Aside: Airlines flying into and out of Baker Lake quote in volume. That's probably one of the reasons Baker is losing all kinds of ecotourim business, including mine. I gave up on starting a trip in Baker because I use my own custom outfitted solo canoe (no rentals for me), and there is no freakin way I am going to pay outrageous volume costs for a canoe that weighs 72 pounds and can hold all my gear inside it. I think the commercial scheduled cargo price quote (one way) for my canoe (not me), to fly into Baker from Winnipeg or Thompson, based on volume, was something over $2000 for my canoe, and packs were extra. That's insane.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 25th, 2006, 7:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: March 5th, 2002, 7:00 pm
Posts: 1067
Ted said
Quote:
phoning would cost a fortune


Be serious, you are looking to spend thousand dollars and you are going to save on a $2.00-10.00 telephone bill? Calls to Europe are now $0.10 or less. The opposite is true. Follow-up your email with a call.

_________________
"Those who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night." Edgar Allen Poe


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 25th, 2006, 8:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: July 22nd, 2002, 7:00 pm
Posts: 1878
Be serious ?
pardon me, I actually thought it would be expensive.
ted

_________________
To the Silent Places
www.parkerclan.ca


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 26th, 2006, 1:51 am 
Offline

Joined: October 23rd, 2006, 2:13 pm
Posts: 5
Location: United Kingdom
Hoop

I queried the price and it is for passengers only. They have given me a telephone number to ring cargo for the price of transporting the canoes.

John


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 26th, 2006, 4:58 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: November 18th, 2003, 5:35 pm
Posts: 1039
John, have you considered renting Pakboats. They have become quite popular for northern flyin trips.
GG


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 26th, 2006, 7:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: August 19th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 1879
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario Canada
Hi Gerald,

If John and his group pick the Coppermine, I would not recommend a packboat. There are some serious rapids in several sections where banging some rocks and boat abuse is a likely occurrence. I remember punching over a boulder fan at the base of a long rapids which was quite a major rock hit and scrape. In the upper river there are several rapids before Point Lake where some boat abuse will likley take place, depending on water levels. A couple days down from LacDeGras is a series of boulder garden rapids where rock bashing is highly likely. In Obstruction Rapids I portaged the first 2/3, and then waded and lined the lower section and really scraped my loaded boat over some rocks to avoid a nasty middle section of too huge rapids. I think a packboat would have been trashed by that point on my trip. In the very technical section of the first day down from Rocknest, I lined my boat and had it thrashed in a hole, and it was tough to pull it out. I am not sure the fabric and frame of a packboat would have survived that. Based on my experience with the Coppermine, I just think that it is such a big powerful, diverse river, that big royalex boats with skid plates and spray decks is the only way to go. More cost for the fly-out, but if they are still flying cargo by weight, it should be quite reasonable. In any case, the trip is worth the money!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 26th, 2006, 12:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: November 18th, 2003, 5:35 pm
Posts: 1039
Hi HOOP_,
I suggested them looking into the Pakboats because thay have been used before on the Coppermine.
Here's one case:
http://www.nhamcpaddlers.org/mem_trips/coppermine.htm
Good winter camping to ya!.
GG


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 26th, 2006, 12:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: March 17th, 2002, 7:00 pm
Posts: 1772
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
HOOP_ wrote:
If John and his group pick the Coppermine, I would not recommend a packboat. !


I haven't done the Coppermine, but I've used Pakboats in places that probably wouldn't be too different. Based on my experience with them I wouldn't have any qualms about taking them on this kind of trip, especially since the fly-in costs for canoes can be so prohibitive. John could probably purchase the canoes and arrange to pick them up in Canada. If he wanted to take them back to the UK they can go with him as checked luggage in the baggage compartment of his flight. My first introduction to Pakboats was on an arctic river. I wound up choosing them because it saved enough money in transportation and rental that it more than paid for the price of the canoes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 26th, 2006, 1:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: January 22nd, 2005, 12:16 pm
Posts: 4044
Location: Toronto
Of the three rivers you mentioned, I recommend the Horton over the Coppermine and the Hood; I've paddled the first two. Being the easiest of the three, the Horton is the ideal first barrenland trip for unguided parties. Paddling there is trying enough for first-timers without difficult rapids.
I recommend that you look at Bill Layman's Canoe Gear for the Sub-Arctic. You will need bug shirts and a bug shelter plus high-quality gear; weather can be bloody awful.
The Horton is accessed from Norman Wells (reached by commercial flights). I recommend North-Wright Air enthusiastically.
If you decide instead on the Coppermine or Hood (toughest of the three), you fly in from Yellowknife. I recommend Air Tindi and Boyd Warner as your outfitter. I suggest strongly that you read the other threads in this forum and the Nunavut one; you get what you pay for.
I have a PakCanoe and love it. I would take it on the Horton; in fact one of our 3 boats there was a PakCanoe and it was great. I would not take it on the Parent (tributary of the Coppermine) though, and I'd be worried about it on some of the rapids below Rocknest, expecially one I call the boulder jungle.
Yours in paddling, Allan


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group