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how do you stereotype Canoers?
isolationists 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
closet drunk who prefers to drink in the bush 5%  5%  [ 2 ]
escapists 21%  21%  [ 8 ]
environmentalists, or 'tree-huggers' 8%  8%  [ 3 ]
fisherman too poor to buy a motor boat 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
traveller/ explorer who prefers self propulsion 67%  67%  [ 26 ]
Tilley Hatter 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 39
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PostPosted: January 19th, 2005, 9:31 am 
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I'm going to agree with RHaslam. Most canoers I'm tripped with have been the cheapest sob's imaginable. And several threads on this board confirm that. Always seems to be someone looking for a great canoe for little money for instance. I vote for cheapskates .
Nice to see some real outdoorsmen around like David C .


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PostPosted: January 19th, 2005, 9:49 am 
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I voted escapists. That's my primary goal, to leave the social and physical noise of city life.

Others also fit me, angler without a motorboat, explorer. A big part of it is wanting to experience what a majority of my province (country if I can afford it someday) is like. So much of Canada is wild land with vestiges of habitation, to ignore it seems to me to be to ignore our own heritage.

Tree hugging to me is the result of enjoying canoeing, not the cause.

good poll!


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PostPosted: January 19th, 2005, 10:38 am 
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i guess i should have included "cheapskates"! :D :D The poll was sort of a last second thought to the post... i see now i should have put more thought into it first. :oops:

stereotyping of 'snowmobilers', or 'sledders' as they prefer, was kind of tongue in cheek. but i have to admit to harbering some to them. we are currently having a problem with them on our property, we allowed them use for many years, but because we walk on the same trail year round with our dogs we have experienced more aggressive driving and an increase in the lack of respect for us as pedestrians/skiiers, and the property it self with oil cans and stuff left or tossed behind. so we closed it. and they still use it. demonstrating a total lack of respect. i think i will soon barracade it. so it's frustrating. so it conjures up a negative stereotype for me. one that i know they all can't be the same. so that's when i thought what kind of impression do we as paddlers have, specifically canoers?


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PostPosted: January 19th, 2005, 10:52 am 
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SWIFT wrote:
demonstrating a total lack of respect. i think i will soon barracade it. so it's frustrating. so it conjures up a negative stereotype for me. one that i know they all can't be the same. so that's when i thought what kind of impression do we as paddlers have, specifically canoers?


Atleast here in Michigan, canoeing is most commonly associated with cunsumption of alcohol. So many people possitively associate canoeing with a good party time. But that obviously creates negative conotations also, like drunk idiots urinating on private property. So I think it really depends on who are interacting with the canoeists.

As to the allegation of cheapskates... I don't know. The average daily canoe trip here in Michigan runs somewhere around $40 for any canoe trip from 2-6 hours. Surely, not the most expensive activity... but surely not cheap either.

PK


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PostPosted: January 19th, 2005, 11:19 am 
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I'm a bit leery on the overall cheapskates label. A good, entry level canoe is $1000, paddles $75, life vests $50, packs $100, tent $200, sleeping bags $100, etc.....and that's for ONE person. Add to that synthetic clothing, bug nets, footwear, cooking pots and utensils, food dehydrators, and the dozens of misc. items required on every trip and the amounts add up. Sure, most of these are one-time purchases, but it's far from cheap. If you include those that need a complete rental outfit, the per trip costs are even higher.

Where the "cheapskates" label IS appropriate, as stated earlier, is from the viewpoint of those in northern Ontario and Manitoba, Minnesota and Maine (etc.) who rely on tourist dollars for much of their income. Since experienced paddlers are a rather self sufficient bunch, we usually hit the road fully stocked and completely prepared, with little need for outside assistance except for the possible hotel room before and after the trailhead.

Chuck


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PostPosted: January 19th, 2005, 11:49 am 
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Cuck and Pk make very strong points about costs.

I think I have a lot of those costs buried in my gear. What make me cheap on a canoe trip is the layover night at some hotel or parking lot before the put-in

Boneli

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PostPosted: January 19th, 2005, 1:44 pm 
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Location: CO2 up, Temps Flat Explain That!
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Here in the states I am starting to get the impression that canoeists are viewed negatively and looked down on. Only drunks, rednecks or poor white trash canoe. I feel like I am handicapping myself when I mention to the young, highly educated, rich, urban co-workers that I am a wilderness canoeist.


I get this sort of vibe from people too. Most of the people I work with prefer the tennis club, the country club, or the like. This country bumpkin turned edumucated professional still likes being outdoors over any other activity. One co-worker was always telling me (in a rather rude manner) how much more civilized and sophisticated he was for being a golf addict and football fan than me and all my redneck outdoor pursuits. I told him that I like to get away from society with all the rude and pushy people trying to impose their idea of what your life should be like on you (hint hint). It bounced right off him. A while later I had enough and told him that my dog chases balls around, if that's his thing, great, but I've moved on to higher pursuits. We keep our conversations on a work only level now :D

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PostPosted: January 19th, 2005, 2:01 pm 
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Educator-I take youth on a 3-4 day trip every year, and several 2 day trips. With the help of 3 friends we train them, teach rescue and outdoor skills, and try to instill respect for the outdoors. Several of these youth are now in the5-6th year of canoe tripping and one has even gone solo :clap:
As for cheap-- last years trip cost a total of $ 1700- most at local outfitters and restaurants.
That ain't cheap :(


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PostPosted: January 19th, 2005, 2:17 pm 
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ckimmerle wrote:
Where the "cheapskates" label IS appropriate, as stated earlier, is from the viewpoint of those in northern Ontario and Manitoba, Minnesota and Maine (etc.) who rely on tourist dollars for much of their income. Since experienced paddlers are a rather self sufficient bunch, we usually hit the road fully stocked and completely prepared, with little need for outside assistance except for the possible hotel room before and after the trailhead.


Chuck, I'm not sure even that is appropriate. Often, the canoeist isn't sure about what ammenities exist "at the end of the road." Sure one can assume that one can probably find some form of lodging, or somewhere to grab a meal within some distance. But it's true we come prepared with a a tent, sleeping bag, food, a stove, and other supplies. So why not use the equipment we bring with us? I personally enjoy sleeping in at tent. I'll generally take sleeping in camp over any motel, from the standpoint of cleanliness alone. In addition, I can generally make a meal that is at least as good, and generally healthier than meals provided in the restaurants.

Now, I'm not above either staying in lodging or eating out in outpost cities before embarking or returning from a trip. I've done it many times. But one surely shouldn't have to do these things to avoid the generalization "cheapskate" being hung around the necks of paddlers that come with all the equipment and supplies to execute a backcountry trip.

As to buying supplies in many of these places... I often walk through outfitters looking for equipment. But I'm often surprised as to the limited supplies of prepared backcountry meals, or the selection of equipment to best suit my needs. If I find the stuff I need, I buy it... but heading up into the Canadian Shield without all the supplies for a trip expecting to buy them up there can surely result in a major failure in a canoe trip. Wilderness canoe tripping requires total preparation before leaving... and that often means that very little is needed from merchants in these outpost cities.

PK


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PostPosted: January 19th, 2005, 2:24 pm 
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Wilderness canoe tripping requires total preparation before leaving... and that often means that very little is needed from merchants in these outpost cities.


I totally agree with ya. I was only referring to how those other people may view us.

Chuck


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PostPosted: January 19th, 2005, 2:26 pm 
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Chuck,

Have you looked into the costs of cottages or lake front property. Still need a canoe , paddles etc and a $1000 won't get you far . Wouldn't buy the stove pipe for my wood stove.


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PostPosted: January 19th, 2005, 3:03 pm 
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canoetripper wrote:
Have you looked into the costs of cottages or lake front property. Still need a canoe , paddles etc and a $1000 won't get you far . Wouldn't buy the stove pipe for my wood stove.


I'm not sure how this has anything to do with the stereotype that canoeists are cheapskates. Are you suggesting that because a canoeist that doesn't own a lakefront cottage are a cheapskates?

Chuck, I'm totally in agreement with you... and was just supporting your view. But people perceptions are just that... perceptions. They aren't necessarily justified... If canoiests are provided with a service... shuttle, fly-in service, use of a campground... then they should pay a fair price for it. But denegrating a wilderness tripper for showing up prepared to head out into the bush as a cheapskate is pretty low class.

PK


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PostPosted: January 19th, 2005, 3:13 pm 
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Hmmmm....wasn't trying to start the debate about leaving money in the communities that you go through......wilderness canoeists usually are self-sufficient and don't need to spend much cash in that regard. What I was referring to was the general nature of the person......many of the people i know won't buy a new canoe, even though they are loaded, and they've been paddling a tin can for 20 years. This attitude carries through into their lives...they never spend money....they will be the first to consume any extra food or beverages I might have on a trip, but never offer if they have any...that spirit carries through to things like portages too.....I always carry extra stuff for other people in the party, but the cheapskates, even though quite physically capable, will never assist someone else on a port....it's an all pervading lack of generosity..........


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PostPosted: January 19th, 2005, 3:35 pm 
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My own perception of a canoeing and camping as a recreational activity is it is a method where a "Dad" or "Mom" can have the total attention of their children, away from the day to day distractions of "Pop culture, television, phones etc. and instill in them basic values of appreciating their environment and how it relates to their future. Plus It is amazing how well the kids get along together, there seems to be better communications within the family as a whole.


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PostPosted: January 19th, 2005, 4:42 pm 
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RHaslam,

Had the same experiences you mentioned with a local canoe club. Many of the people had money but cheaped out all the time . In fact most people I have canoed with seem pretty cheap on the trip and off .
Gave up on that trip leading stuff. Too much campsite nig**r for a half baked thanks in the end. Just got a burned out transmission to show for chauffering these tightwads to canoe country .
But to give canoers a break I've recently met some $#@$ cheap cottagers too.
Its a disease !!!

PS replacing my water line heater will be $2000 . Buys a bit of canoe gear I'd say .


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