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 Post subject: Sail + Paddle power
PostPosted: June 13th, 2007, 9:39 am 
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Joined: June 13th, 2007, 9:26 am
Posts: 3
Location: Burlington, Ontario
Although many will find it silly I am working at putting together a sailing rig to use when tripping. In doing this I realize that the majority of trips I go on, I rent the canoe so I cannot permantly attach anything to the canoe.
In renting I am never certain of the make & model I'll be with for the trip so I have to make my rig infinately adjustable. I have a few different designs down on paper and a few mock-ups done as well, but I do not have all of the required dimensions, so I ask for your help.

Please let me know what the with of your canoe is at the (with the make & length) just aft of the bow seat and just forward of the stern seat (as I'll use the rig when solo as well).

I appreciate your input & I'll post pics when I have something worth showing.

Thanks


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PostPosted: June 13th, 2007, 9:53 am 
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Joined: August 20th, 2002, 7:00 pm
Posts: 2864
Location: toronto, Ontario canada
Not silly at all.

One option is to simply take a removable yoke and modify that. They have slots that the gunwale clamps slide along. You can buy just the clamps. A hole for the mast. Some kind of rope/rigging from the bottom of the mast to the bow and from the top to the stern to prevent twist? I worry that a strong wind could bend or break gunwales. Doubt the outfitter would be impressed.

I like 'V' shaped sails, keeps sightlines open.


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 Post subject: Spirit Sails
PostPosted: June 13th, 2007, 12:22 pm 
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Joined: June 28th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 1674
Location: Freeland, Maryland USA
http://www.spiritsails.com/home.shtml

I have mounting brackets for Spirit Sails on a couple of our boats, and will be adding them to a couple more. These are really easy to set up, use and take down, and they are handsfree so I can paddle in light and variable winds with the sail up.

If you scroll down the link below to “Canoe – Basemount hardware” that might give you some ideas for a universal clamp-on sail mount:

http://www.spiritsails.com/products.shtml


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: June 13th, 2007, 2:39 pm 
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Joined: June 13th, 2007, 9:26 am
Posts: 3
Location: Burlington, Ontario
I have seen these spiritsails and thought that I could do better,,, as it turn out it is a little more like re-inventing the wheel than I had thought.

I was looking to have a mast with a furling mainsail permanently attached to the boom. I would use a shackle/swivel to attach the boom to the mast to allow for as-close-to-real-sailboat as possible. Apparently I would do better trying to make myself strong enough to portage a Laser or similar instead.

A second option is to mount a board from gunwale to gunwale and straps to keep the board slightly forward of the yoke. a mast (tarp pole?) would be mounted to this board, and an upsidedown V sail attached at the tip of the mast and lines from either of the two bottom corners to control the sail.

I suspect theat the second style would be more convenient for the paddler in the bow to operate so the guy in the stern could steer, so I have also rigged a wooden clamp or the bow of the canoe to step the mast.

I think I need a drink and a rest.....


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PostPosted: June 13th, 2007, 4:40 pm 
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Joined: August 11th, 2002, 7:00 pm
Posts: 5546
Location: Sunny Wasaga Beach
The best solution I have found is to take a big golf umbrella, preferably the kind with 'blow-out panels'. Often while canoeing the wind on the canoe is very variable because from an exposed area to the lee of a point, or vice versa, fairly often. Being able to collapse the umbrella quickly and go back to paddling is a real bonus.

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Old canoeists never die---they just smell that way.



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: June 13th, 2007, 6:43 pm 
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Joined: January 11th, 2005, 4:58 pm
Posts: 1896
Location: Manitoba
One of those big golf umbrellas!

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http://www.JohnstonPursuits.ca

 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: June 13th, 2007, 9:08 pm 
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Joined: July 30th, 2006, 1:31 pm
Posts: 405
Location: Hamilton ON
I didn't want to portage a heavy mast. My brother made a light weight hollow wooden mast.
the technique is called bird's mouth
see http://www.frankhagan.com/weekender/bm.htm

Jim


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: June 13th, 2007, 9:12 pm 
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Joined: July 13th, 2004, 10:19 am
Posts: 119
From my understanding, (correct me if I'm wrong) the Spirit Sail is a square-rigger and you can only use it to sail when the wind is behind or quartering behind you.

If you are looking to sail closer to the wind, you'll need a fore-and-aft rig (like on a Laser) and it sounds like this is what you've been trying to develop. A mast step is desirable to secure the base of the mast after it has passed through the hole in your removable yoke, but it appears that you have given this some thought. You'll also need a lee board or its equivalent to prevent side slip when the wind is coming at a steeper angle.

Mast, boom, sail, lee board ... all more stuff to portage. Making the golf umbrella sound more attractive. They're relatively light, infinitely and immediately adjustable to the wind, and they can also ...wait for it ... keep the rain off you.
Brilliant!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Sail + Paddle power
PostPosted: June 13th, 2007, 9:28 pm 
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Joined: October 29th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 435
Location: Livingston Montana- On the Banks of the Yellowstone River
My two cents: Ive used a cheap plastic tarp and folded into a triangle and attached to a three meter drift wood pole and it worked great. At the bottom corner i tie a short piect of rope so i can hang onto one end and either more the sail in or out depending on my control . Ive coveerd as much as 80KM on Great Slave lake and also a few 30km days too. I know NOTHING about sailing and probably with a few lessons would have done well.
My solo expedition canoe has a sail mount built into the floor . I also liteally just tied the pole in with rope...probably not the safest...but then again driving to work isnt safe either.
I have a couple of old wind surfing sails i may try and experinment with but they could be too big.



slappyjer wrote:
Although many will find it silly I am working at putting together a sailing rig to use when tripping. In doing this I realize that the majority of trips I go on, I rent the canoe so I cannot permantly attach anything to the canoe.
In renting I am never certain of the make & model I'll be with for the trip so I have to make my rig infinately adjustable. I have a few different designs down on paper and a few mock-ups done as well, but I do not have all of the required dimensions, so I ask for your help.

Please let me know what the with of your canoe is at the (with the make & length) just aft of the bow seat and just forward of the stern seat (as I'll use the rig when solo as well).

I appreciate your input & I'll post pics when I have something worth showing.

Thanks


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: June 15th, 2007, 9:17 am 
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Joined: March 17th, 2006, 10:29 am
Posts: 13
Location: Scotland
I use a couple of bits of wood that I clamp to the seat.

Image

Then I have s simple sail that uses the two halves of my pole.

Image

In strong winds I can make a little progress into the wind using this set up, just using my paddle as a lea board but it is best for down wind and at an angle to the wind.

Even though there is no mast foot the set up still holds up fine even in strong winds.

Image

A little more info here

http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/forum/ ... .php?t=969

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John

www.SongOfThePaddle.co.uk
Canadian Canoeing with a UK bias.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: June 16th, 2007, 10:49 am 
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Joined: April 11th, 2002, 7:00 pm
Posts: 1146
Location: Barrie, Ontario Canada
That's a very unique and clever idea, John. Never seen that before. Simple, strong, and cheap. If made from 2 blocks of cedar, light too.

Very nice!

As for sprit rigs, they are not just downwind/beamwind rigs. Not at all. But whether you can go upwind or not depends on your keel surface, and for that you need a leeboard arrangment, which is much more difficult and heavy to build than a mast and sail.


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 Post subject: PVC "T" fitting partner
PostPosted: June 16th, 2007, 7:17 pm 
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Joined: June 22nd, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 1268
A few years ago I made a mast partner from a 2" PVC T fitting. Simply cut a notch in the bottom of the T, which is then turned sideways and lashed to the rear of the bow seat. The mast is then inserted down thru the fitting. This set up doesn't interfere with sitting on the bow seat, not by much anyway.

I doubt an outfitter will let you glue a mast foot into their canoe but if you place your packs just fore and aft of the mast and maybe tie the mast to them you'll be OK. You might need a couple of shrouds from the mast to the yoke.

My sail was a 40 sq ft balanced lug. I cut the spars and mast from the riverside and sailed from the Coal River all the way to Moose Factory on the Missinaibi.

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Solo canoes and single blades, with a sail for those windy days...

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Last edited by jjoven on June 17th, 2007, 4:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: June 17th, 2007, 3:00 pm 
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Joined: March 17th, 2006, 10:29 am
Posts: 13
Location: Scotland
Dave Hadfield wrote:
That's a very unique and clever idea, John. Never seen that before. Simple, strong, and cheap. If made from 2 blocks of cedar, light too.

Very nice!


Thank you. I would love to claim credit but I heard about it from an outfitting talk given by Claire Knifton

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John

www.SongOfThePaddle.co.uk
Canadian Canoeing with a UK bias.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: June 18th, 2007, 8:35 pm 
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Joined: July 13th, 2004, 10:19 am
Posts: 119
There's a sailing canoe for sale on craigslist again today.
http://toronto.craigslist.org/boa/355041355.html


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 Post subject: Sailing vs Tripping
PostPosted: June 20th, 2007, 4:53 pm 
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Joined: January 10th, 2005, 3:03 pm
Posts: 198
Location: Wilmington, Ma
We tried mixing sailing with tripping last summer.
We were attempting a trip which included some ocean paddling, upstream poling , cart portaging, and downstream paddling.
We used our setting poles for masts.
The other guys used 44 sq ft Snark sails and ruddered with their paddles.
Image
Image

I made a 50 sq ft sail from housewrap and used a rudder.
Image

It was a lot of fun but, at least with our relativly unsophisticated rigs, sailing upwind was slow. Much slower than paddling.
IMO it really was not worth the extra weight in leeboard, boom and in my case rudder. I think a simple down wind rig like the PA might be better for tripping.
Not as much fun to sail though.

Tommy


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