View topic - Important Message about Philip Edward Island & area

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PostPosted: September 10th, 2015, 3:54 pm 
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The band has legitimate (legal) claims, and both the Prov. and First Nations group are eager to solve this problem.
Since the land that they where supposed to have would affect many more people, something is going to be done.
I would suggest negotiating a passable route through the area.
That does man it will become a P.P.
or with the transfer negotiate the right of passage and camping areas.
Look at both sides,
come up with a solution that will continue to give you reasonable access.
If you want the paddling community to have a seat at the table we will have to act accordingly.
Jeff

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PostPosted: September 10th, 2015, 4:41 pm 
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I like Phillip Edward Island as much as the next guy. It sucks that the crown land we have so long enjoyed access to may no longer be guaranteed to us. But, perhaps that's justice.

It seems like the government is trying to make a deal. Land that was never ours to begin with has been taken from the people it belongs to. This is no longer being debated. We are going to see a lot more of this as Aboriginal title to land is being recognized across the country.

So how to put it right? 'White Mans' approach has be to belabor the process, ignore or break the treaties, and muddle about with un-ceeded land because there is no painless way to put things right. Someone will always be put out. Maybe it's our turn.

The Provincial and Federal Governments have to make a decision. Take privately owned land away from the people who now 'own' it and give it back to the First Nations. Or, make a deal involving the transfer of Crown land and/or cash. The government has been pretty clear that it will not expropriate private property to settle a land claim. That leaves Crown land and cash. I think the First Nations would prefer the land.

Is there any other Crown land in the area that can be transferred??? I don't know. Looking at this map, PEI is about the most logical choice:

http://files.ontario.ca/wiiki_overview_map.jpg


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PostPosted: September 10th, 2015, 5:05 pm 
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To me it looks like a fait accompli. http://grondinepark.com/index.php/experiences/paddle

I am not averse to paying FN for access and it seems they are interested in tourism.


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PostPosted: September 10th, 2015, 5:31 pm 
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Doesnt look like the land in question but does look like a step in the right direction.


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PostPosted: September 11th, 2015, 3:34 pm 
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The Toronto Star reported on the open house held yesterday, September 10, 2015. Here is a link to the story:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/09 ... -deal.html


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PostPosted: September 11th, 2015, 4:14 pm 
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http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/09 ... -deal.html
By: Jacques Gallant Staff Reporter, Published on Thu Sep 10 2015

Quote:
Access to pristine island at stake in First Nations deal
Philip Edward Island, popular with tourists and Georgian Bay locals, to change hands in proposed deal.

As an agreement looms over the transfer of territory in northern Georgian Bay to the local First Nations community, cottagers and tourists are expressing concern that their access to a pristine piece of Crown land may soon be cut off.

On the one hand, a spokeswoman for the provincial Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs told the Star that Wiikwemkoong Unceded Territory plans to develop some of the land on Philip Edward Island — uninhabited Crown land popular with tourists, including Torontonians — as parks, for the continued use of the general public.

But Wiikwemkoong’s chief said in an interview that a “final determination” on access has not yet been made and will be left up to members of his community.

Ratification of the proposed agreement over the territory, located 100 km south of Sudbury, is expected within the next 18 to 24 months. The government is now in a consultation period and hosting open houses, including one in Toronto on Thursday.

“Recreational use of the islands in Georgian Bay that are proposed to be transferred to Wiikwemkoong , including the Philip Edward Island‎ archipelago, would require the permission of the First Nation,” said Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs spokeswoman Flavia Mussio in an email.

“The provincial Crown land would be transferred to the First Nation in fee simple, meaning Wiikwemkoong would own the land as a private landowner.”

Negotiations have been taking place for almost a decade, and the government says that an eventual agreement is expected to include both financial compensation and transfer of lands.

Wiikwemkoong has set aside legal action dating back to 1997 while the negotiations are ongoing. That civil action includes 23,000 islands, according to government documents, which said the proposed settlement agreement would deal with the central portion of the litigation.

According to the government, it’s been proposed that 17,500-acre Philip Edward Island, as well as some territory on the mainland, will be transferred to Wiikwemkoong instead of other islands that form part of the First Nation claim because they are private lands that cannot be returned. Those lands include Fitzwilliam Island, just off the coast of Manitoulin Island.

An association that represents dozen of cottagers in the area has said it is concerned with the relatively quick pace of the public consultation period, and is encouraging residents and property owners to write to the Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs.

“The association’s goal is to maintain future access to Philip Edward and surrounding islands for all Ontarians and First Nations,” said Northern Georgian Bay Association board member Robert Nairn.

“For many years now, thousands of campers have visited the island, and effectively it’s been treated as a park . . . We know there’s access now. We don’t know for certain if there will be access in the future. That’s an unknown because of the ongoing negotiations that we’re not privy to.”

Wiikwemkoong’s chief told the Star in an interview that there is still much up for discussion among members of his community. Ogimaa Duke Peltier said options about access include allowing anyone on the island.

“Yes, we’d like to settle this tomorrow, but we also understand that Ontario has its process to ensure that the public is aware that they are making efforts to return lands that were alienated from the unceded territory of Wiikwemkoong ,” he said.

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PostPosted: September 11th, 2015, 5:51 pm 
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Look at Beckwith, Hope, Christian and Parry Islands as examples of First Nations territory with fee based public access. It's not perfect, but it works.
Among other business dealings, I'm currently partners with a First Nations band from Thunder Bay district on a large commercial investment portfolio and have always found them reasonable if you give them respect. There's a lot of bad history to overcome and that includes intentionally hindering their ability to perform equitable business with "whites". The result is many of the bands are not trusting, nor financially sophisticated but appreciate partners who educate rather than take advantage of their compromised position. It appears this band is somewhat sophisticated. Staying at the table with them as "partners" throughout the upcoming years of development is critical for the outdoor recreation community.

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PostPosted: September 11th, 2015, 7:10 pm 
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Drhntr wrote:
Look at Beckwith, Hope, Christian and Parry Islands as examples of First Nations territory with fee based public access. It's not perfect, but it works.
Among other business dealings, I'm currently partners with a First Nations band from Thunder Bay district on a large commercial investment portfolio and have always found them reasonable if you give them respect. There's a lot of bad history to overcome and that includes intentionally hindering their ability to perform equitable business with "whites". The result is many of the bands are not trusting, nor financially sophisticated but appreciate partners who educate rather than take advantage of their compromised position. It appears this band is somewhat sophisticated. Staying at the table with them as "partners" throughout the upcoming years of development is critical for the outdoor recreation community.


I agree and I am also not feeling entitled to access. I would gladly pay. I would appreciate knowing who to contact before we go to Philip Edward Island in 2016. Maybe that can be posted as things move forward.


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PostPosted: August 11th, 2016, 5:14 pm 
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Just got back from a four day circumnavigation. Spoke to some leaseholders that have property on PEI. Think that the FN deal will go through. They aren't happy as they are not FN and will lose cottages
Access. The Chikanishing boat launch is jammed. Rentals powerboaters kayakers canoeists. Never have I seen such boat traffic
I won't be going back. Sure it's pretty but really cavalcades of kayakers?: Waste is a problem and all the campsites on the Bay side were full. Kayakers don't seem to use the Collins Inlet side at all.
Some form of management is due


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PostPosted: August 12th, 2016, 8:44 am 
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Disappointing about the crowds! We were there mid-summer about 4-5 years ago and saw very few people, no competition for sites. I wonder if your experience is common or was more of an anomaly, or maybe ours was? Have the crowds increased that much in the last few years?

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PostPosted: August 12th, 2016, 9:39 am 
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lrc - sorry to hear about your less than tranquil paddle around PEI! I hope your Lake Superior Park portion of the trip was more enjoyable - but given that it was prime summer time there too maybe it wasn't either.

Our mid- June trip around PEI couldn't have been more different - empty parking lot at Chikanishing, no paddlers on the water, no litter at the campsites. I was amazed to find thunder boxes set up on Martin's Island and at our Big Bay campsite. Clearly someone has taken the time to keep things tidy even though the area is Crown Land and not a part of Killarney Park.

We tend to avoid Algonquin and Killarney altogether or slot in trips during the shoulder months - May-June and September-October.

I hope your enjoyed the Chihuly show at the ROM. I happened to be in Jerusalem back in the summer of '99 (why did I just hear Bryan Adams in the back of my head!) when they had a collection of his works on display in the Old City. I had never heard of him so was bowled over by the colours and swirls!

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PostPosted: August 12th, 2016, 11:31 am 
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I talked to a Bateman Island resident and another family on Beaverhouse Bay
Both said they have never seen crowds like this summer
LSPP by contrast was empty. Sure we saw 10 paddlers or so but not 300
It seems PEI is the in thing.
Perhaps a Star article is the cause? The Chickanishing lot was full too


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PostPosted: August 12th, 2016, 12:56 pm 
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LittleRed....thanks for the PEI news. Would love to hear more about some of the paddling and camping possibilties there if you got a chance to pen a few paragraphs in a thread on it :)

I wonder how the French River is looking these days, better than that I hope. Might be the better alternative with some time later this month.

cheers Steve


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PostPosted: August 12th, 2016, 1:03 pm 
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I have photos on my camera to be run thru Photoshop and resized on my computer That is home
I'm just using a phone now and posting is a PITA
We'll be home in a week
I'll start a new thread so not to further hijack this one


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PostPosted: August 13th, 2016, 7:56 am 
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We paddled out to the Fox islands from Chickanahing on Sunday, July 10th and spent the night on Martin's Island. We saw a tent on Centre Fox and one on Sly Fox. No one else on Martin's or West Fox. We saw just a few people at the Chickanahing launch. We passed a couple groups camped on PEI on the way out. Over all it did not seem crowded and we had some solitude. The campsite we stayed at on Martin's was clean except for some beer cans that we took back with us. True North, we did not see a thunder box, but we were on the north side of the island, I think you were on the south side. July 10th may still be a little early in the season, so not a whole lot of people at that time.

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