View topic - Canoe on roof rack: Need front & rear tiedowns if . . .?

It is currently December 7th, 2019, 2:12 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 80 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: August 27th, 2017, 1:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: July 16th, 2006, 8:59 pm
Posts: 804
Location: Now in Sudbury
You don't need a canoe cart. Carrying canoes is what shoulders were made for.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: August 27th, 2017, 2:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: May 19th, 2017, 3:09 pm
Posts: 129
Ghost wrote:
You don't need a canoe cart. Carrying canoes is what shoulders were made for.


When you have my degree of poor spatial clearance awareness, you DO need a cart! I would bump the bow or stern of a canoe too frequently if I tried to carry it overhead with the vision restrictions that creates! Been there, done it in the past, and don't want to do it again, especially with my nice new kevlar canoe!

Also, if the tide is OUT, we are talking about carrying the canoe a full kilometer or more. No exaggeration.

I got the C-Tug Sandtrakz, so that I can handle the wet and dry sand too. :D

Jim G


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: August 27th, 2017, 2:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: May 19th, 2017, 3:09 pm
Posts: 129
Canoeheadted wrote:
4 Pages!!!
Jim.... go paddling.

You're engineering this to death.
Too many hypotheticals can discourage you beyond repair.

We just came home last night from a six day trip to Kidprice Lake.
Two very lightweight solos (with lots of tumblehome) on the roof rack, 80kms of highway speed (at 100kph), another 80 kms of dirt road with washboard, potholes, and overloaded logging trucks that drive like they own the road.

This is with two hull straps and one front tie down per boat. We stop at intervals to check up on the boats.
The only thing we've ever discovered (in all our years of boat transporting) was the foam pads starting to move out of place and this has only happened on our round roof Tercel that had no roof rack.

I'm getting worried that this may be one of the boats that I regularly hunt for. 8)

Like Starsky said... "Do it, do it"


There's one more factor on timing that is CRITICAL: My wife! She has been working VERY hard and has big plans for this week, and I have been told I must abide by them! I'll get her out in the canoe soon though . . . :D

Jim G


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: August 27th, 2017, 2:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: July 16th, 2006, 8:59 pm
Posts: 804
Location: Now in Sudbury
JimGnitecki wrote:
Canoeheadted wrote:
4 Pages!!!
Jim.... go paddling.

You're engineering this to death.
Too many hypotheticals can discourage you beyond repair.

We just came home last night from a six day trip to Kidprice Lake.
Two very lightweight solos (with lots of tumblehome) on the roof rack, 80kms of highway speed (at 100kph), another 80 kms of dirt road with washboard, potholes, and overloaded logging trucks that drive like they own the road.

This is with two hull straps and one front tie down per boat. We stop at intervals to check up on the boats.
The only thing we've ever discovered (in all our years of boat transporting) was the foam pads starting to move out of place and this has only happened on our round roof Tercel that had no roof rack.

I'm getting worried that this may be one of the boats that I regularly hunt for. 8)

Like Starsky said... "Do it, do it"


There's one more factor on timing that is CRITICAL: My wife! She has been working VERY hard and has big plans for this week, and I have been told I must abide by them! I'll get her out in the canoe soon though . . . :D

Jim G

"Happy wife, happy life" :thumbup:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: August 27th, 2017, 2:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: August 8th, 2017, 9:14 am
Posts: 842
On the Bay of Fundy Jim G?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: August 27th, 2017, 4:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: May 19th, 2017, 3:09 pm
Posts: 129
Prospector16 wrote:
On the Bay of Fundy Jim G?


No, Bay of Fundy is apparently famous for high tide QUANTITY flows. Per one Google article: "Twice each day, 160 billion tonnes of seawater flow in and out of the Bay of Fundy — more than the combined flow of the world’s freshwater rivers!"

That is not the issue with tides around Parksville on Vancouver Island. Our issue is the very, very gently sloped coastline. Even though the VERTICAL height difference between low tide and high tide is only about 1.8 meters today for example, that very gentle slope results in the waterline receding well over a kilometer whent he tide goes out.

This makes portaging a canoe from the high water mark to the low tide waterline, through the sand and slippery mud and tidal pools, crushing literally millions of tiny sea lives* on the way, an unattractive part of canoeing! :D

Hence the need to look at the tide tables and adjust your plans to correspond with high tide. Since high tide only occurs twice per day, and since The Sun is only out PART of the day, and since we are only available to canoe some paerts of some days, the scheduling gets complicated . . .

Jim G

* The density of tiny critters left on the tidal flats is absolutely amazing. It is no exaggeration whatsoever to say there are many millions of them on the beach. We have snails, crabs, jellyfish, starfish, anemones, and many other critters, some so tiny that I use a macro lens or bellows with lens to photogrpah them when out to do my insect and sealife macro photography.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: August 27th, 2017, 8:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: August 8th, 2017, 9:14 am
Posts: 842
Bay of Fundy has that as well - especially so in the Minas Basin near Cape Blomidon. When you go dulcing at low tide you have to walk a good km or more out to where you harvest the seaweed which is now just sitting on the ground.

From Wolfville at Low tide is very similar - and every year the freshmen at Acadia University get taken out mudsliding on the mud flats. It is pretty fun!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: August 27th, 2017, 8:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: May 19th, 2017, 3:09 pm
Posts: 129
Attachment:
Shallow sloped beach - 1.jpg
Shallow sloped beach - 1.jpg [ 66.2 KiB | Viewed 1979 times ]


Here's a photo of low tide at Rathtrevor Beach, 3 miles from center of Parksville, BC, taken from a good distance already out from "high tide" elevation!

You can see why this is a popular beach with vacationers!

Jim G


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: August 28th, 2017, 8:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: January 19th, 2014, 1:24 pm
Posts: 96
Location: Toronto
KipawaRob wrote:
I use permanently mounted under hood loops like these:
https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5047-417/ ... ops---Pair

The ones suggested earlier that can be closed under the hood work well too.

Then I put a 3" strip of 3M protective film along the edge of the hood where the strap will contact the paint. The film is clear and basically invisible (my car is white). After 2 years I have not worn through it.


I have scratched the paint on my bumper in the past with straps hooked up under the car. Though this was during a long trip on rough gravel roads. Dust gets behind the strap, then slight movement back and forth for a few hours = scratched right though the paint. I don't like straps touching any painted part of my cars. The under hood loops are much easier to reach anyway.




Yeah, these hood loops that attach to the fender bolts are the way to go. No risk of abrasion damage. Thule sells them as does MEC and pretty much any similar retailer. "The ones suggested earlier" work similarly but aren't bolted and as a result, can actually damage hoods that are aluminum rather than steel as they pull against the hood. For the stern tie-down you may consider running a strap through the top of the rear gate and into the car where you can attach it to one of the internal tie-down loops.

I just bought a 2017 Honda Fit EX earlier this year so I have just recently gone through this angst. You know what they say - the first cut is the deepest.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: September 20th, 2017, 2:10 am 
Offline

Joined: September 7th, 2017, 4:57 am
Posts: 33
Prospector16 wrote:
Ha ha I am glad someone said it about not worrying about paint scratches :-)

Here I am with my boys beating around some back roads in NS using google satellite view to find a good fishing spot. We got a few scratches on it that day :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVMiEISx7_A


That looks fun and challenging with those obstacles. Reminds me of our adventure a couple of weeks ago. Helped a buddy install the smittybilt bumper for his Jeep and took it on a trail with heavy bushes and timbers. We had to pull a few logs as well a bit bigger than that.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: September 20th, 2017, 9:50 am 
Offline

Joined: May 19th, 2017, 3:09 pm
Posts: 129
norm4n wrote:
Prospector16 wrote:
Ha ha I am glad someone said it about not worrying about paint scratches :-)

Here I am with my boys beating around some back roads in NS using google satellite view to find a good fishing spot. We got a few scratches on it that day :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVMiEISx7_A


That looks fun and challenging with those obstacles. Reminds me of our adventure a couple of weeks ago. Helped a buddy install the smittybilt bumper for his Jeep and took it on a trail with heavy bushes and timbers. We had to pull a few logs as well a bit bigger than that.


I once met a guy who had a cabin in Wyoming and loved togo Jeep trailriding. His idea of a fun trail ride was one in which you winched the Jeep up a cliff and then back down on the way back! Myself, I would have been preoccupied with what happens if the Jeep gets dropped . . .

Everyone has their own ideas, and thresholds, of fun!

Myself, I strongly prefer the joys of paddling a canoe, not the process of getting the canoe TO and FROM the water!

Jim G


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: September 20th, 2017, 10:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: March 26th, 2013, 9:27 pm
Posts: 434
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Algonquintripper wrote:
Yeah, these hood loops that attach to the fender bolts are the way to go. No risk of abrasion damage. Thule sells them as does MEC and pretty much any similar retailer. "The ones suggested earlier" work similarly but aren't bolted and as a result, can actually damage hoods that are aluminum rather than steel as they pull against the hood. For the stern tie-down you may consider running a strap through the top of the rear gate and into the car where you can attach it to one of the internal tie-down loops.

I just bought a 2017 Honda Fit EX earlier this year so I have just recently gone through this angst. You know what they say - the first cut is the deepest.


I took my wife's Honda Fit to pick up an Esquif Vertige (small boat) 15 hours away. Those onboard computers are a curse when you see how much car topping a canoe kills fuel economy on a little car. Interestingly enough, I put premium in my older car when car topping two canoes to help make up for the extra drag. I tried premium in the Fit and it did not improve fuel economy one bit. I later read an article on how newer cars with computer controlled fuel mixtures do not see any improvement with premium.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: September 20th, 2017, 11:26 am 
Offline

Joined: May 19th, 2017, 3:09 pm
Posts: 129
Neil Fitzpatrick wrote:
Algonquintripper wrote:
Yeah, these hood loops that attach to the fender bolts are the way to go. No risk of abrasion damage. Thule sells them as does MEC and pretty much any similar retailer. "The ones suggested earlier" work similarly but aren't bolted and as a result, can actually damage hoods that are aluminum rather than steel as they pull against the hood. For the stern tie-down you may consider running a strap through the top of the rear gate and into the car where you can attach it to one of the internal tie-down loops.

I just bought a 2017 Honda Fit EX earlier this year so I have just recently gone through this angst. You know what they say - the first cut is the deepest.


I took my wife's Honda Fit to pick up an Esquif Vertige (small boat) 15 hours away. Those onboard computers are a curse when you see how much car topping a canoe kills fuel economy on a little car. Interestingly enough, I put premium in my older car when car topping two canoes to help make up for the extra drag. I tried premium in the Fit and it did not improve fuel economy one bit. I later read an article on how newer cars with computer controlled fuel mixtures do not see any improvement with premium.


Couple of things you'll find interesting:

1. The newer car engines that can use premium fuel are programmed to produce best POWER, not best economy, when running premium. On lower octane fuel, the fuel economy stays the same,but the available peak power declines because the ignition timing is retarded enough to prevent the detonation that would otherwise occur with less-than-premium fuel.

2.I had a very interesting situation a few days ago with my own canoe on top of my car. I have a 2012 Mercedes C63 AMG with a 520 hp 6.3 liter V8. I typically average 15 to 17 mpg in my normal mix of highway and city driving. I can normally average about 21 to 23 mpg at 55 to 60 mph, and the highest MPG I have ever averaged for at least 15 miles is 25.3.

A few days ago, I did a 2-way trip, 45 miles each way x 2 = 90 miles, with the canoe on top, on a run on the Hwy 19A coastal highway on Vancouver Island. This highway goes through a bunch of towns and built up areas,so the speed limitnever goes above 55 mph, and gets as low as 30mph. I got 22.7 mpg! I THINK this is because of the low average speed,which limits the amount of aerodynamic drag that the roof rack plus canoe actually create.

I suspect that if I had taken the "high speed" Hwy 19 where the speed limit is 120 kph (74.4mph), the fuelmileage would have been radically different! Still, it shows what can happen if you keep the speed down.

Jim G


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: September 20th, 2017, 4:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: January 19th, 2014, 1:24 pm
Posts: 96
Location: Toronto
Neil Fitzpatrick wrote:
Algonquintripper wrote:
Yeah, these hood loops that attach to the fender bolts are the way to go. No risk of abrasion damage. Thule sells them as does MEC and pretty much any similar retailer. "The ones suggested earlier" work similarly but aren't bolted and as a result, can actually damage hoods that are aluminum rather than steel as they pull against the hood. For the stern tie-down you may consider running a strap through the top of the rear gate and into the car where you can attach it to one of the internal tie-down loops.

I just bought a 2017 Honda Fit EX earlier this year so I have just recently gone through this angst. You know what they say - the first cut is the deepest.


I took my wife's Honda Fit to pick up an Esquif Vertige (small boat) 15 hours away. Those onboard computers are a curse when you see how much car topping a canoe kills fuel economy on a little car. Interestingly enough, I put premium in my older car when car topping two canoes to help make up for the extra drag. I tried premium in the Fit and it did not improve fuel economy one bit. I later read an article on how newer cars with computer controlled fuel mixtures do not see any improvement with premium.


I've only done the one trip as yet with the canoe atop and I was curious as to what the effect would be. Can't say I noticed a difference compared to other vehicles I've owned. Any vehicle would drink a little more with the drag of a canoe. I suppose the difference may be a little more with a 4 cyl vs an eight.

With the Fit, I have achieved 5.7 l/100k on 400-series highways with strict adherence to the speed limit. More usual speeds of 120-130 required to maintain flow I get around 7.5 l/100k. With the canoe round trip from East York to Algonquin AP#3 I did 8.7 l/100k.

You're right about the premium gas. Save your money.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: September 20th, 2017, 9:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: September 7th, 2017, 4:57 am
Posts: 33
JimGnitecki wrote:
norm4n wrote:
Prospector16 wrote:
Ha ha I am glad someone said it about not worrying about paint scratches :-)

Here I am with my boys beating around some back roads in NS using google satellite view to find a good fishing spot. We got a few scratches on it that day :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVMiEISx7_A


That looks fun and challenging with those obstacles. Reminds me of our adventure a couple of weeks ago. Helped a buddy install the smittybilt bumper for his Jeep and took it on a trail with heavy bushes and timbers. We had to pull a few logs as well a bit bigger than that.


I once met a guy who had a cabin in Wyoming and loved togo Jeep trailriding. His idea of a fun trail ride was one in which you winched the Jeep up a cliff and then back down on the way back! Myself, I would have been preoccupied with what happens if the Jeep gets dropped . . .

Everyone has their own ideas, and thresholds, of fun!

Myself, I strongly prefer the joys of paddling a canoe, not the process of getting the canoe TO and FROM the water!

Jim G


Jim that's a little extreme... and risky.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 80 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group