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 Post subject: Wabakimi Project
PostPosted: September 1st, 2019, 3:53 pm 
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Joined: September 22nd, 2016, 7:04 pm
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Location: Omemee
Is the Wabakimi project still active after Phil Cotton passed?


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PostPosted: September 9th, 2019, 9:28 pm 
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Joined: December 19th, 2016, 10:11 pm
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The Project has transitioned to the Friends of Wabakimi; as Uncle Phil envisioned. The FOW has published a new large planning map ($50 plus $20 for shipping) as well as we have the five book volumes of maps covering the entire area for sale. Membership is $20 a year. We're still in a transition process as we're regrouping for our future efforts. We're a very far flung group that has board meetings by Skype. Current plan is to be at Canoecopia with an information booth in 2020. Currently, we're working on a Guidebook to highlight introductory routes into the Wabakimi area; along with lots of information. (Laurence Mills of Wabakimimaps.com is helping us with this too.) Part of that process is to identify potential routes, and have self-directed groups re document those; and if possible improve the portages; especially those on the Crown Land routes around and leading into the park. Yes, our web site is out of date; though most of the links still work; redoing that is a high priority. Drop me an email at davemcteague@comcast.net and I'll shoot you our last newsletter. Here's the map order form for the map books: (same address for the planning map)
http://www.wabakimi.org/maps/files/waba ... orm_v8.pdf
Our next newsletter will go out in late October.
Check out and like us Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/FriendsofWabakimi/
Join us!
Dave McTeague (aka OregonDave); Board Chair
(Vern Fish is our President)


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 Post subject: Re: Wabakimi Project
PostPosted: September 10th, 2019, 2:37 pm 
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Joined: January 11th, 2005, 4:58 pm
Posts: 1894
Location: Manitoba
Glad to hear FOW is continuing to champion the Wabakimi Project.

Have you considered promoting Wabakimi at the Far North Symposium?
http://www.mncanoe.org/content.aspx?pag ... _id=936723

Maybe there is someone within your community who already attends the Far North Symposium and could help out.

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 Post subject: Re: Wabakimi Project
PostPosted: September 11th, 2019, 6:15 am 
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Joined: August 8th, 2017, 9:14 am
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Any interest in releasing GPS data?


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 Post subject: Re: Wabakimi Project
PostPosted: September 11th, 2019, 10:51 am 
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Joined: August 8th, 2013, 9:53 am
Posts: 119
I couldnt even get a straight answer on if the map book covered the area I wanted to paddle in. When inquired before there was no interest in publishing materials online. I found that if you got the parks map of wabakimi it was sufficient for planning and normal topos covered the details.

https://www.shopcanoeing.com/products/m ... ncial-park

For an organization that expects to increase awareness of the park they dont seem to want to provide any information without being paid for it.

A stark contrast from people like Jeff McMurtie, Brad Jennings, Johnathon Kelly etc.

If you were really interested in promotion you would make maps available online. People would still buy them if they met their needs.


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 Post subject: Re: Wabakimi Project
PostPosted: September 11th, 2019, 11:34 am 
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Joined: June 21st, 2001, 7:00 pm
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Location: Woodstock, Ontario Canada
Wow good luck finding the portages without the maps and have an idea where there are campsites
The wabakimi project pays their own expenses including park fees just to clean up portages
I for one think the cost of the map booklets is very cheap

Bill

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 Post subject: Re: Wabakimi Project
PostPosted: September 11th, 2019, 2:27 pm 
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Joined: August 8th, 2013, 9:53 am
Posts: 119
Bill P wrote:
Wow good luck finding the portages without the maps and have an idea where there are campsites
The wabakimi project pays their own expenses including park fees just to clean up portages
I for one think the cost of the map booklets is very cheap

Bill



I had no problems finding portages or campsites. I never said the maps arent good. Ive never seen one, that's my point. From what I've seen they dont amount to much more than a Kevin Callan route, meaning it does not show lakes in the area not directly on route. Kevin's come as a real book with detailed notes and costs less.

Make the map available so people know if it meets their needs. If it does they will buy the books.


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 Post subject: Re: Wabakimi Project
PostPosted: September 12th, 2019, 11:20 am 
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Joined: May 18th, 2011, 11:24 am
Posts: 23
Thanks for the input. Yes, you are correct: the map books provide particulars on portage locations, campsites, lodges along particular routes; they do not detail much of surrounding country, as they are meant to complement topo maps, not replace. FOW Board is discussing possible other formats for the future. All portages have been ground-truthed and cleared at that time, but you know how it goes with paths in the boreal over time... sort of use-it or lose-it. Phil would often share information on this site, but he was reluctant to post Project maps, etc., on line, I believe because of copyright concerns. Friends of Wabakimi funding is presently only by membership fees, donations (?), and sales of our planning map and the map booklets. We are just getting our bearings after losing Phil at the helm, but we definitely do want to promote trips in the region and help people with information on the routes.


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 Post subject: Re: Wabakimi Project
PostPosted: September 12th, 2019, 6:55 pm 
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Joined: August 29th, 2006, 7:57 pm
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Location: Toronto
I'm with Bill on this one.

Given the $500.-$1000. we spend on a two or three-week canoe trip in Wabakimi country, I have no problems spending $20. on a map set for the area we'll be paddling in. it is an investment that provides us with essential info that will help ensure a better trip. I've bought all five map sets over the past nine years. The booklet is the price of a burger and fries and bottle of beer on your way up to the put-in.

The Friends of Wabakimi is a volunteer not-for-profit organization that has opened up this corner of NW Ontario to paddlers like me. I had never even heard of Wabakimi until Phil Cotton and his Wabakimi Project crew popped up in a Google search after I had read Kevin Callan's entertaining but pretty sketchy on details account of his visit to the Beckwith cabins.

The map sets each contain 20 pages or so of fairly detailed portage and campsite information, much of it the result of Wabakimi Project crews that have cut trails and established campsites. In another world, it would be Parks Ontario that would do this work using taxpayer money. BTW the scale of the maps is 1:100000 so you will need to download from the Natural Resources Canada website copies of the 1:50000 topos for extra detail. Those maps obviously do not have portage and campsite info.

Full disclosure: When the Friends of Wabakimi was established, I got a five-year membership, mostly as a way of supporting a worthy initiative started by Phil Cotton and now carried on, I hate to say it, mostly by paddlers who live in the U.S. and not in NW Ontario.

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 Post subject: Re: Wabakimi Project
PostPosted: September 13th, 2019, 6:55 am 
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Joined: February 10th, 2005, 2:36 pm
Posts: 210
Location: Southwest Michigan
True North,

Thanks for pretty much sharing my thoughts exactly. I cherish the memories of my 4 trips (counting the Kopka) to Wabakimi. Not at all sure they would have happened if not for the efforts of the Wabakimi project. To think, in many cases, they found, surveyed, cleared, and then mapped the portages. I am very grateful.

That is why I am a member. I also own all 5 of the great map books.


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 Post subject: Re: Wabakimi Project
PostPosted: September 13th, 2019, 11:08 am 
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Joined: May 18th, 2011, 11:24 am
Posts: 23
Good point by True North on the membership of FOW. We do have three Ontarians on the board of FOW (an Ontario-based organization), at present, and Debbie in Thunder Bay is instrumental in helping with the map books..., and others. A lot of members, like me, are from the states. I think part of that is because (excepting rail travel) the Wabakimi area is arguably easier to get to from the Midwest than from the GTO. Also, Phil spent a lot of time and money promoting the area and recruiting Project members at outdoor shows in Wisconsin and Minnesota, as well as in Ontario. He would have the big planning map on an easel: all that green and blue, for paddlers, worked like red does for hummingbirds.


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 Post subject: Re: Wabakimi Project
PostPosted: September 13th, 2019, 11:54 am 
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Joined: February 12th, 2004, 9:28 am
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Location: Waterloo, ON
I wonder if folks on this thread might be overlooking something.

It doesn't sound like anyone is objecting to spending $20 on a map. The one post specifically said:"I couldn't even get a straight answer on if the map book covered the area I wanted to paddle in." Spending $20 to find out that the map you bought does NOT cover the area you're heading to would pretty annoying.

As for the "good luck finding the portages without the maps and have an idea where there are campsites" attitude, well that ain't the way Uncle Phil always described it. He always made it pretty clear that finding the old portages just meant looking for them in the obvious places. The portages were where they had to be if you took a little time to understand the topo maps.

The fact that: "The wabakimi project pays their own expenses including park fees just to clean up portages" means it is just like all of the other Friends volunteer groups.

The Wabakimi Project has done some great work over the years and it's good to know that the FOW is picking it up and keeping the project alive. Sometimes feedback that is meant to be constructive doesn't come across that way the first time you read it in a post.

I had the pleasure of having a beer and a good chat with Uncle Phil after a presentation down this way one time, but haven't made it to Wabikimi yet. It's still on the bucket list and I know I'll appreciate the work the Wabakimi Project and FoW have done when I do make it there.

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 Post subject: Re: Wabakimi Project
PostPosted: September 13th, 2019, 1:05 pm 
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Joined: May 18th, 2011, 11:24 am
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Thanks again. Per the coverage of the map books ("volumes"): this info can be found by using wabakimi.org and clicking on 'wabakimi canoe maps'. Tabs on the left include an overview coverage map showing the area covered by each volume; then go to the volume and click on it for table of contents, to learn the particular routes covered. Don't know the particular situation Gnatwest ran into, but there it is... and the Project folks I know are pretty enthusiastic about sharing info on the routes they have been on and which book(s) it went into. Hope this helps!


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 Post subject: Re: Wabakimi Project
PostPosted: September 13th, 2019, 1:58 pm 
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Joined: August 29th, 2006, 7:57 pm
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Location: Toronto
Just to respond to this comment -

Quote:
The one post specifically said:"I couldn't even get a straight answer on if the map book covered the area I wanted to paddle in." Spending $20 to find out that the map you bought does NOT cover the area you're heading to would pretty annoying.


Absolutely no reason to be annoyed!

There is very detailed info provided at the Project website that will tell you all you need to know. Click on this link

http://wabakimi.org/maps/coverage.shtml

Image

Click on the titles of the various volumes on the left-hand side and you will access even more specific map information, including a complete list of all of the maps included in the booklet.

gnat west writes above -
Quote:
f you were really interested in promotion you would make maps available online. People would still buy them if they met their needs.


We expect free online news, download free music, free movies. Why not free maps! Gnat must have in mind the business model chosen by Jeff McMurtrie with his free digital downloads of his jeff's Maps and now Unlostify. it would be interesting for Jeff to chime in and explain how that is working.

There would be no reason to buy the Wabakimi booklets if you could just download digital copies of the maps for free and print them off yourself. The Friends of Wabakimi would lose the one source of revenue they have to fund their continuing portage trail maintenance and paying for the printing of the various volumes of maps.

To question whether The Friends of Wabakimi are indeed interested in promoting a little known NW Ontario paddler's paradise - does that really require a response?

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 Post subject: Re: Wabakimi Project
PostPosted: September 13th, 2019, 3:31 pm 
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Joined: July 6th, 2004, 5:46 pm
Posts: 102
I grew up paddling in that area in the 70's before the expansion of Wabakimi. I've was
back in the 90's after the expansion as well. What's interesting for me to think about
how unknown and wild it was in the 70's. The only way I got information
was through the Lakehead University outdoor program, or the old section sheets
for routes in the area. Now of course things are all laid out in the books and maps. It's great
that it makes things more accessible and people are visiting and will make an effort to
protect the place. However I do think about how few places that are left which require
discovery. They exist of course, but are shrinking by the day. By the way, it's also interesting to compare
the maps and information from the Wabikimi friends, to the Quebec canoe federation information
(which has some government funding, I think).


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