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 Post subject: Re: V-bottem
PostPosted: November 1st, 2013, 6:34 am 
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Joined: July 24th, 2010, 10:40 am
Posts: 48
I used to own 2 v bottom solos(Mad River Liberty,Savage River Wee Lassie) in addition to my Swift,Bell,colden solos ect. The v bottoms had a tender spot when level which soon firmed up when healed a little. When I was tired or distracted like taking a picture or looking through binocs or looking behind me,I would sometimes get startled by the initial twich. I think if I only padled v bottoms,I would have gotton acostomed to it,but switching back and forth I didn't. This was one reason I sold them.
Turtle


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 Post subject: Re: V-bottem
PostPosted: November 3rd, 2013, 10:14 am 
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Joined: August 14th, 2012, 10:19 am
Posts: 184
I have a couple of Mad River canoes (Kevlar Explorer and Kevlar Traveler) with shallow V-bottoms and have paddled other V-bottom MRC canoes.

I also own or have owned sea kayaks with Greenlandic hulls with pronounced V bottoms.

V-bottom boats are like bicycles. When moving they are fine but when at a standstill they tend to "fall over" to one side or the other. In the case of the canoe they only fall over onto the flat of the hull, fortunately. Once you get used to not fighting to keep the hull balanced perfectly upright when still I doubt you will notice this tendency.

V bottoms do increase the wetted surface area and are inherently a bit slower than shallow arch hulls as a result, but in my opinion the difference is not very significant. I have paddled hard-chined V-bottom kayaks and shallow arch bottomed kayaks of similar dimension and have not appreciated much difference in efficiency.

The main difference that I tend to notice paddling a V-bottom boat is when turning. V-bottom boats turn more efficiently when heeled onto the flat of the hull, especially the off-side flat.


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 Post subject: Re: V-bottem
PostPosted: November 3rd, 2013, 10:31 am 
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Joined: July 29th, 2009, 9:29 am
Posts: 387
Location: Lower Saranac Lake, NY
Agree with Pete completely.

There was a time I thought I needed V hulls. Sitting deeper in the water they have lower block coefficients and track better, all other things being the same, which they seldom are.

Heeled inside a turn, onside towards the Duffek, the V stern presents a vertical composite wall to the water, inhibiting the stern's skid into an eddy turn.

Heeled offside, away from the turn, the bow is carving into the turn, and the offside V presents an angled surface to the water, enhancing the stern skid.


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 Post subject: Re: V-bottem
PostPosted: December 6th, 2013, 12:25 am 
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Joined: July 5th, 2004, 12:55 am
Posts: 466
"When I was tired or distracted like taking a picture or looking through binocs or looking behind me,I would sometimes get startled by the initial twich"
and
" When moving they are fine but when at a standstill they tend to "fall over" to one side or the other."
Yeah, does that for sure. Also odd feeling initially when I'm settling in to it. Have to admit it hasn't flipped. Bounces all over in waves... maybe more weight; I could eat more?
"I think if I only padled v bottoms,I would have gotton acostomed to it,but switching back and forth I didn't. This was one reason I sold them." That's what I was thinking... maybe a Keywadin. Maybe more hours in it next year to see... It seems that the V-bottem is noticeable to some and doesn't seem to be that popular.


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 Post subject: Re: V-bottem
PostPosted: January 2nd, 2014, 6:52 pm 
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Joined: December 23rd, 2013, 7:21 pm
Posts: 30
I own a Keewaydin 16 for 2 years now, paddled weighed from 250lbs to 650lbs. Still now, the first word that comes to mind to describe it is "twitchy" in all situations. I had to teach the dogs to sit quietly, and any new paddling companion gets "the talk" about balance and smooth position transitions.

So what if primary stability is non-existant. I adapted to it and I adore it for all its other qualities!

My other boat is a kayak, a Current Design Whistler. I consider it as flat-bottomed as a flying saucer and as steady and fast as a barge...

I suggest that you rent a few different form-ed boats and head out to play near a beach to find what fits you best - for you.


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 Post subject: Re: V-bottem
PostPosted: January 3rd, 2014, 2:43 am 
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Joined: July 5th, 2004, 12:55 am
Posts: 466
Tried the 16 a few years ago and found it as you describe. I think there is a continuum twixt a canoe that feels solid as a dock and usually paddles like one and at the far end something very quick and if you scratch you ear you go swimming. Somewhere between the two you find something that feels right to you. It's the finding that's difficult.


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 Post subject: Re: V-bottem
PostPosted: January 3rd, 2014, 7:33 am 
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Joined: December 23rd, 2013, 7:21 pm
Posts: 30
Alex1 wrote:
[...] if you scratch you ear you go swimming. [...]
LOL! I use a sneazing analogy :lol: It sure handles differently than any Prospector that I have paddled!

I tried out a half-dozen canoes before stopping my choice on the Kee in 16ft. It grows on you and I would not exchange it for anything else. I wish you the same success at finding your dream canoe!


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 Post subject: Re: V-bottem
PostPosted: January 3rd, 2014, 10:39 am 
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Joined: December 29th, 2002, 7:00 pm
Posts: 6148
Location: Bancroft, Ontario Canada
Quote:
I think there is a continuum twixt a canoe that feels solid as a dock and usually paddles like one and at the far end something very quick and if you scratch you ear you go swimming. Somewhere between the two you find something that feels right to you.


There's also the need for a canoe that feels right for most others... I keep an old flat-bottomed Pinetree Abitibi (aka The Tub) for visitors that can't take a twitchy canoe.

It would be nice if most visitors that want to try canoeing would be aware of what makes a canoe perform well. But mostly they aren't aware and a stable flat-bottomed hull it must be, otherwise they don't go.

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 Post subject: Re: V-bottem
PostPosted: January 7th, 2014, 1:25 pm 
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Joined: July 5th, 2004, 12:55 am
Posts: 466
Trying to put a pic in....


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