View topic - Campers abusing crown land - Kawarthas - Bottle, Kasshabog

Ministry won't ban camping on Crown land, despite complaints

By Mark Hoult

Posted 3 years ago

Havelock-Belmont-Methuen - Despite warnings from the Lake Kasshabog Residents Association that confrontations between lake residents and campers on Crown land could “escalate in a dangerous fashion,” the Ministry of Natural Resources says it will follow current provincial policy that allows campers to occupy a Crown land site for up to 21 days before moving at least 100 metres to a new location.

Havelock-Belmont-Methuen Township had asked the ministry to allow the prohibition of camping on two areas of Crown land where a group of campers have caused problems for several years. Council members called in representatives from the MNR last summer to discuss problems caused by campers who were moving trailers onto Crown land, cutting down trees, leaving garbage and even digging pits to use as toilets.

Cottage owners on lakes throughout the township had been complaining for several years about the problems caused by campers. But last summer the discussion focussed on one particular area on Kasshabog Lake. Reeve Ron Gerow said campers moved in outhouses and even makeshift docks and boat houses. Trees were cut down, and land dug up by park trailers, which campers somehow managed to bring in even though the road leading to the site is in very poor condition, he said.

Gerow asked MNR area supervisor Robert Walroth if the ministry could find a way to stop vehicles from getting to a site where serious problems have been identified. “The campers are becoming more obstinate and arrogant and causing social and waste problems,” Gerow said at the time. “We’d like to see an area delineated and made off limits to the public in this particular area, because it is becoming a problem.”

This summer the campers returned to the same area, prompting council to send a letter to the Ministry of Natural Resources describing the problems local residents have had with the campers on Kasshabog Lake. The municipality’s letter was followed up by a letter from the lake association to Minister of Natural Resources David Ramsay, stressing that the ministry “should be aware that the campers have initiated several confrontations” with the residents of Kasshabog Lake. Lake association executive association liaison Les Morris said that during meetings at the MNR office in Bancroft, Walroth “made it clear that he has no intention of closing any of these sites, in spite of council’s requests.”

He said the prime concerns of the 50-year-old association are water quality and protection of the environment. “We feel that a number of campers do not have these interests on their agendas,” Morris said. “Our lake is at capacity as far as residences are concerned, and our official plan controls further development. It is clear that there are no rules to limit the number of campers, which has escalated dramatically in the last five years, and without control will lead to disaster for our lake.”

Morris suggested a number of solutions to the problem, including the closure of the sites for a period of time. He also suggested the sites could be numbered, with permits being issued for their use. Or signs could be posted noting that the area supports only a certain number of campers, he said.

But in a reply to the township’s July 26 letter, Assistant Deputy Minister of the MNR field services division David de Launay said the ministry does not consider restricting camping on specific lakes to be a long-term solution to what he called “perceived problems.”

Restricting camping would simply move the problem to another area and “restrict responsible campers from enjoying crown land,” he said. “The majority of campers are responsible people who spend family vacations enjoying permitted recreational activities on Crown land, while a minority may cause issues by acting irresponsibly,” de Launay added, noting that site visits to Crown land camping areas on Kasshabog and Bottle lakes revealed no garbage or evidence of “excessive cutting of trees.”

He said local ministry staff will continue monitoring the sites and take “appropriate enforcement action where it is warranted.” He also encouraged township representatives to conduct a joint site visit with ministry staff “to identify and further investigate concerns.”

This week Gerow expressed his opinion of the ministry’s stance in no uncertain terms. “I think we need a new minister of natural resources. We’ve met with him three times on this matter and he does not get the issue, he just doesn’t get it. So regardless of what happens in the election, I just hope that whoever forms a government will take a look at this.”


Gerow stressed that the problem with campers is an ongoing issue with the residents of Lake Kasshabog. “It’s a specific area,” he said, stressing that council is not trying to restrict camping on vast tracts of crown land. “We have two basic problem areas in Methuen Township in the area of Kosh Lake. And I just can’t for the life of me understand why it takes so many people with so much time to make a decision like this.”

Gerow said council has met with the MNR, explained the problem and asked the ministry to declare the problem sites no camping areas. “But nobody has the political fortitude to do anything about it,” he charged.

Deputy Reeve Andy Sharpe moved to send a letter to the Kasshabog Lake Residents Association, noting the ministry has denied the municipality’s request to close the sites. “We’ve certainly put in a lot of effort to move forward and help solve some of the issues there,” he said.

MNR to address residents camping concerns

By Mark Hoult

Posted 4 days ago


Havelock-Belmont-Methuen — Ministry of Natural Resources area representative Bruce Mieghton will meet with residents of Kasshabog Lake to discuss their concerns about campers using nearby crown land.

Residents of both Kasshabog and Bottle lakes in the township have told council members here some campers are building docks, clearing trees and leaving smouldering fires at campsites. During the past four years, campers have moved trailers onto crown land, cut down trees, dug toilet pits, left garbage and even moved in makeshift docks and boat houses.

Reeve Ron Gerow told Mieghton the situation has improved, but there are still concerns.

"We're concerned about the campfires left going," he said. "That's a very serious one, where people leave fairly serious fires going, because we've had some pretty dry weather."

Mieghton said he visited one campsite last year following complaints and received positive response from campers.

"This is not an unusual situation on crown land," he said. "Camping on crown land is a privilege, but there are always some bad actions that concern us, especially anything to do with public safety."

Mieghton said the MNR usually tries to correct the behaviour of campers.

"Just making them move somewhere else doesn't correct their behaviour. But positive reinforcement, usually with the help of signs, helps."

Mieghton said campers on crown land can stay on one site for 20 days. Then they must move at least 100 metres from the site. People can hunt, fish, camp, hike and pick berries on crown land, but they can't erect any kind of permanent structure, Mieghton said.


Coun. Jim Martin said he has received numerous complaints from Bottle Lake.

"They are camping on an island now, and they have docks in the water. And people are calling us and we are getting the heat."

Mieghton stressed complaints from lake residents should be directed to the MNR.

"If you get calls that's my problem and the MNR's problem and we need to hear about it."

Gerow suggested Mieghton meet face-to-face with lake residents who have real concerns to discuss the issues and attempt to find some solutions.

Unfortunately, these guys don't seem to be breaking any laws. Until the laws change, this sort of abuse will continue unchecked.

Mike - tarp shelters are part of camping to me. Maybe I'm not picturing quite the same set up as you are.

Tarp shelters are fine when you're camped there, but my beef is that most of the hunt camps I come across seem to feel that it's alright to leave them "standing" once you leave for the season.

They don't seem to stay "standing" for very long:
A wind hits these things, knocks them over, then they become a tangled mess of logs, nails, and shredded blue Canadian Tire polytarps.

In the end, these tarp shacks that are becoming so popular just turn into more garbage heaps on the land...

Most crown land campers are respectable but at times a few won't care about their crummy behaviour & appearance.

There's a big difference between a tarp over a kitchen area for a short time, and the tarp encampments that are the hallmarks of the squatters on crown land.

Geez.