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NWPA (again) under attack by the conservative Government
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Author:  JF [ December 22nd, 2012, 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NWPA (again) under attack by the conservative Governmen

Well we all have to pick our battles and alliances. I am not in favour of all the changes regarding NWPA either, but I personally could not use the Idle No More movement as my vehicle of protest.

Author:  Sam82 [ December 22nd, 2012, 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NWPA (again) under attack by the conservative Governmen

99.9% of protection of our waterways was just removed by the Conservative government. I do not have the luxury of picking and choosing who I will side with against such a catastrophe.

Author:  JF [ December 22nd, 2012, 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NWPA (again) under attack by the conservative Governmen

Of course you do.

Author:  Sam82 [ December 22nd, 2012, 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NWPA (again) under attack by the conservative Governmen

JF, I think we both agree that what the Conservatives did to the NWPA was wrong (disasterous). But I disagree, I have read up on the Idle No More movement and I am in support of it. I will be contacting a few of my native friends and asking how I may help.

The Conservative governement are snakes. They had no right passing that Bill. And it is not the first time they have made attempts at passing treacherous Bills.

Author:  Sam82 [ December 22nd, 2012, 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NWPA (again) under attack by the conservative Governmen

I wrote Erin O'toole today. I will post his reply when I get it. Up next is Laurie Scott and Barry Devolin.

Author:  Sam82 [ December 22nd, 2012, 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NWPA (again) under attack by the conservative Governmen

Laurie Scott and Barry Devolin have been contacted, I will post both of their replies as well.

Author:  Sam82 [ December 22nd, 2012, 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NWPA (again) under attack by the conservative Governmen

JF wrote:
This could be a rats nest for the moderators.... In order to have some sort of strategic alliance with the First Nations, by siding with the Idle No More movement, wouldn't one have to agree with all of their viewpoints regarding all of the issues being demonstrated against(e.g. treaty problems, funding, natural resources, development)? I'm not sure how such an "alliance" would be structured, but I suspect it would be most appropriate coming from personal support rather than some sort of canoeing community partnership. I don't see how members of this MYCCR community could possibly agree. The Idle No More movement is like an omnibus movement by itself.



And just to clarify JF, I almost resent that last part you wrote and generalizing this "community". I have paddled rivers that the only reason they are still flowing free is because of Native protests in the past... . I would also suggest you research how the Idle No More movement started... . Hmmm very recently the Kapuskasing River was SEVERELY dammed (as in multiple dams AND while the NWPA still existed....scary what will now happen that thats gone...). Do you know who were the only people to show up and protest?

I am not attacking you JF. I am just really disagreeing with your point of view on this. I think every Canadian needs to step up and stand up to the Conservative government. Together we may have a chance of getting rid of this Bill. Seperate or in small pockets of "alliances"...forget it...not going to happen IMHO.

Author:  jedi jeffi [ December 22nd, 2012, 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NWPA (again) under attack by the conservative Governmen

JF I don't think you have to worry, they will take our support, but they prefer to come after these issues on their own.
And on an issue like this we do stand shoulder to shoulder.
Sam is right on this issue small pockets or alliances will fail again.
and again the big envrio kids have not stood up to the plate.
Go back through the history of this issue and see how weak the arguments that where put forward by the LIbs. and big enviro kids.
Even as the Harper Government sets them up to remove their tax status and open their books to the public the way they just did for Unions.
Gee it seem awfully unfair that the same rules are not being applied to the far right groups....
And that is something to think about.
And sometimes in alliances you must swallow your pride.
It does not mean you have to agree with everything they stand for.
But if want a separate thread on their issue feel free to go for it.
But if you opt out because we and the First Nations stand together on river protection and access,
You have played straight into Mr. Harpers agenda, and he is counting on it.
Jeff

Author:  JF [ December 22nd, 2012, 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NWPA (again) under attack by the conservative Governmen

Sam, I'm not exactly sure what you resent - I think you are making my point that it would be next to impossible for the MYCCR community (of which you and I are both members) to agree. I am aware of how the Idle No More movement started and think I have a fair grasp of the complexities of the situation. I lived and raised my family in close proximity to First Nation reserves, have wrked directly with many FN individuals and Chiefs and Councils. I have visited remote FN communities and seen the lving conditions firsthand. But due to my experiences and those of my family, I have very mixed feeling about the INM movement and how it is taking place.

I fully support anybody standing up to the Conservative government over the NWPA changes, but due to my own personal experiences, I just don't think an alliance with the INM protest is the way to do it.

Author:  Erhard [ December 23rd, 2012, 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NWPA (again) under attack by the conservative Governmen

For those that are not on top of the "Idle No More" movement, here's an interesting article on what it could mean for non-Native folks. From the Star.

Quote:
Why should non-Indigenous Canadians care?

First, it is a matter of social and environmental justice. When corporate profit is privileged over the health of our lands and waters, we all suffer. When government stifles debate, democracy is diminished. Bill C-45 is just the latest in a slew of legislation that undermines Canadians’ rights. In standing against it, the First Nations are standing for us too.

Second, as Justice Linden of the Ipperwash Inquiry said, “we are all treaty people.” When our governments unilaterally impose legislation on the First Nations, they dishonour the Crown, they dishonour us, and they dishonour our treaty relationship. We are responsible for ensuring that our governments fulfill their commitments. If our governments do not respect Indigenous and treaty rights, then the very legitimacy of the Canadian state — and thus of all our citizenship rights — is in doubt. That’s what Idle No More is about.

So, yes, Harper should meet with Spence. But a meeting alone will not suffice. Change requires action. It requires a shift in public consciousness. It requires all of us being there, Dec. 21 and beyond, to “live the spirit and intent of the treaty relationship, work toward justice in action, and protect Mother Earth”.

Jeff Denis is an Assistant Professor of Sociology at McMaster University.

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editoria ... hould-care

That brings us back to the NWPA issue: no alliance is needed, but a strong voice of support re the government abuse of the public issues seems in our own interests and also the right thing to do.

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