View topic - Ministerial Letters on our rivers!

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PostPosted: November 21st, 2015, 11:11 pm 
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frozentripper wrote:
<please note I didn't mention Obama and shortcomings thereof even once here>

Huh ... perhaps you're confused about another discussion thread. You mentioned him twice re: 1) broken environmental promises, and 2) as example of “cluelessness in government.” And I agree with you on neither, as I suggested above. I also don't agree with you that policies, such as climate change, are examples of politically-motivated money getting thrown around "with the primary focus being optics in the media." I understand you have a cynical view and general distrust in government to put into practice and "translate" well-intentioned measures "on the ground." There are many examples of effective governance on this basis (and in Obama admin regarding environmental policies, etc.). Numerous and meaningful Canadian examples too. Are you suggesting it is impossible (given your views about government) for navigable waters protection (using "modern safeguards") to be one of them? I'm not sure I understand the motivation to condemn such priorities before even seeing what becomes of them (and to simply "watch" what happens rather than have your voice heard through political action and your elected representatives). If there is something disappointing in this approach, I'm not sure it is the efforts of elected representatives or the "good-intentioned" environmental policies themselves that are to blame for this?


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PostPosted: November 22nd, 2015, 9:55 am 
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I'm not sure I understand the motivation to condemn such priorities before even seeing what becomes of them


As I wrote earlier on, I got to see from the inside on how government money gets spent, so yes, I've seen this sort of thing before. And as I wrote earlier on, I am not judging the new liberal government just yet.

<how many times have I repeated that... sheesh>

Getting OT from protecting wild rivers for a moment, if you want a much bigger reason for cynicism, take a look at the two charts below, one showing global liquid fuel production and consumption, and the other showing production of coal. Despite all the talk of reducing global GHGs since the early 80s, is there any visible change in trend?

In the popular press, the Keystone veto is getting lots of congratulatory spin in the press as a significant victory, while invisible oil and coal producers and nations (mentioning no names here of course) continue to fuel that bigger-picture trend. There might be some cause for celebration when the trend reverses, but as I wrote earlier on, we wait and see what happens this time (eg. COP21).

<not holding my breath>

https://www.eia.gov/forecasts/steo/repo ... al_oil.cfm

http://www.indexmundi.com/energy.aspx?product=coal

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PostPosted: November 22nd, 2015, 12:37 pm 
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frozentripper wrote:
... if you want a much bigger reason for cynicism, take a look at the two charts below ...

Your information is dated …

US coal consumption down 9% in 2015, accelerated plant retirements (due to competitive headwinds and tougher environmental standards), coal exports down 19% (due to slower growth in world demand), and current global coal market trends are expected to continue in 2016.

http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/steo/report/coal.cfm

Global Coal Consumption Heads for Biggest Decline in History

China’s crackdown on air pollution, emerging international frameworks, OECD environmental regulations, competitive alternatives (including renewables), and more are contributing to current trends. You’re still condemning and complaining (and seem to think “perfection” and a total reversal is the only standard to follow), and are not looking at positive trends and environmental policies that are clearly working, creating new economic opportunities and advantage, and need your support and to be expanded. The life of a cynic sounds rather dull to me … don’t you ever get tired of it?


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PostPosted: November 22nd, 2015, 2:45 pm 
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You're saying one year's worth of data creates a long-term trend reversal?

:rofl:

<sorry, killing myself laughing>

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PostPosted: November 23rd, 2015, 9:39 am 
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http://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/pdf/en ... report.pdf


see p38.... world consumption of coal increased in 2014

The uptrend continues, so does politically-motivated hot air.

With politically-motivated promises, it's easy to announce an impressive goal. It's often more difficult to actually meet said goal.

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PostPosted: November 24th, 2015, 2:46 pm 
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frozentripper wrote:
see p38.... world consumption of coal increased in 2014

The uptrend continues, so does politically-motivated hot air.

Your link highlights the following: "Global coal consumption grew by 0.4% in 2014,
well below the 10-year average annual growth of 2.9%." Sounds like a slow down to me!

You don't think a clearly projected 3 year slowing trend is a trend ... along with all the other data on even larger reversals in OECD regions (much of it the result of policy). If you think environmental policy is ineffective, you're certainly doing a poor job showing it. Cynical claims to ignore relevant data (even in your own links) notwithstanding.


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PostPosted: November 25th, 2015, 10:31 am 
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You don't think a clearly projected 3 year slowing trend is a trend...


No, it isn't, wait until the actual numbers are in.

Now that the nuclear sanctions against Iran have been lifted, there is a move on to develop one of the world's largest cheap O&G reserves, Both Iran and Russia need the money, and in this part of the world money talks, most likely more than what develops in Paris (21st kick at the can over there)

Low gas prices this Thanksgiving, have fun, drive safely.

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