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PostPosted: January 9th, 2003, 9:09 am 
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Joined: May 14th, 2002, 7:00 pm
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Location: Toronto, Ontario
have you ever seen the north face fleece with built-in heat? i was thinking, with improvements in battery technology, perhaps winter camping will be a bit easier in the future. for example, with a full body fleece, you could use a summer weight sleeping bag.

is the winter outing coming up soon? it sounds like so much fun. i wish i could go. i've one of those cozy wood stove tents. :smile:

in any case, i've a question for the brave winter campers. i'm guessing many of you will carry a thick parka for periods of inactivity. have you ever thought about skipping the sleeping bag and simply sleeping in your parka? :eek: do up the hood, pull in your arms and drift off? as long as you're careful about keeping things dry, i'm not sure what the downside would be. just trying to eliminate redundant weight.


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PostPosted: January 9th, 2003, 9:13 am 
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Location: Cheltenham, Ontario Canada
Feathered Friends (www.featheredfriends.com) makes a half-bag. I think it's rated to -20. It's designed to work as the bottom half of a sleeping system, with the parka as the top.

The system you suggest is popular with the ultra-lightweight crowd.


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PostPosted: January 9th, 2003, 9:19 am 
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cool! thanks kerry. :smile:


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PostPosted: January 9th, 2003, 10:09 am 
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Joined: June 18th, 2001, 7:00 pm
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Location: Copper Cliff, Ontario, Canada
I also remember reading about someone who advocated sleeping in quilted down underwear (long sleeves and long underwear) and skip the sleeping bag completely. Don't remember where I read it, and I don't remember if that was for camping in the dead of winter.


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PostPosted: January 9th, 2003, 10:29 am 
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Location: Two Harbors, Minnesota USA
If you tried that around here you would freeze your ass off, without a doubt. I can just imagine the individual huddled around the fire
waiting for the first light of dawn to appear in the east after a 16 hour night. He/she would be cracking themselves on the head, wondering why they were so dumb as to leave their sleeping bag at home. It would be even worse if that person's companions were sound asleep in the warmth of their sleeping bags!


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PostPosted: January 9th, 2003, 1:13 pm 
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Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Canada
Quote:
On 2003-01-09 10:09, Richard wrote:
I also remember reading about someone who advocated sleeping in quilted down underwear (long sleeves and long underwear) and skip the sleeping bag completely....


Is this what you saw Richard?

I think I might get some of these.

Bill.


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PostPosted: January 9th, 2003, 1:36 pm 
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Location: London, Ontario Canada
Sleeping in the clothing you have worn all day will, in my opinion keep you bloody cold all night. You should change into some fresh sleeping clothes. They could be the longjohns for the next day. The clothing you wear during the day will be damp for perspiration from your moving around. I usually sleep only in my sleeping bagliner, inside my winter sleeping bags. I also suggest you wear a fresh toque when you sleep.

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PostPosted: January 9th, 2003, 2:16 pm 
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Location: Vancouver, BC
I used to think the same thing (about sleeping in the same clothes). However, I think that advice was for the days when everyone wore cotton and other materials like it.

I recently tried a few trips without doing this, and found that not only was I warm, but everything I was wearing (most polypro stuff) was dry in the morning. I even had the audicity to stuff my boot liners in the bag (not covered in anything) and they were almost dry in the morning.

Scott


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PostPosted: January 9th, 2003, 2:32 pm 
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Location: Calgary, Alberta
One wacky X-mas present I received was a pair of battery powered socks. I have used them indoors and outdoors and they actually work! Each sock is powered by a single D-cell battery in a little cordura pouch attached to the ankle elastic. They are tall enough so the battery will sit above medium size boots. They wouldn't fit tall boots. And they droop from the weight of the battery when wearing shoes or slippers.

The heating element is in the toes only. That is where you lose heat first so keeping the toes warm keeps the feet warm. They don't get hot, just warm.

Two problems: they have to be handwashed; and they work so well they get stinky pretty quick.

I haven't tested how long they work before needing a battery change. I'll let you know when I figure it out.


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PostPosted: January 9th, 2003, 7:17 pm 
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Location: Thunder bay, Ontario Canada
So are you saying one doesn't have to change into different clothes before climbing into your sleeping bag? I have been getting the clothing thing organized for The Winter Gathering and am figuring I should bring two sets of long underwear, one for the day and one to sleep in, plus my feece stuff and touque..I hear the mornings are the roughest times when winter camping!! Its cold and you don't want to get out of your warm bag. I think I will practise getting undressed and dressed while in my bag !!! HA HA...


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PostPosted: January 9th, 2003, 7:55 pm 
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Sleep drying clothes is one the techniques adopted by the ultralight crowd. In theory, your body heat will dry out your stuff and drive the moisture out of your bag (kind of like the theory behind goretex). The other technique is carrying a lighter bag and sleeping in your clothes when the extra warmth is needed. These are perfectly acceptable three season ideas.

I don't think either of these techniques are a good idea in cold temperatures. While some water vapor will escape through the opening of the bag, a lot will also migrate through the bag itself. This water vapor will encounter the dew point before it gets out of the insulation and condense, thus your bag will get wet in extreme cold conditions. Anyone who has tried to stay warm on a cold night by pulling their bag over their head can attest to this. No sense in adding to the moisture needing to migrate out of your bag by wearing wet clothes to bed if you don't need to. Afterall, we will be base camping and hauling our gear on sledges so weight is not an issue.

I typically alternate my long johns and heavy socks, by changing at night. That way I am putting on dry clothes when I am already too warm to be climbing into a bag. Then I don't have to strip in the morning when I am most likely chilled. I hang the previous days clothes to dry for the next night, along with my sleeping bag.

I see featherefriends.com that Kerry mentioned also carry moisture barrier inner liners for your bag. Those look like a great idea to help keep the sleeping bag dry for the duration of a long winter trip by forcing the majority of the water vapor we generate to escape through the opening.

Tony


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PostPosted: January 9th, 2003, 8:41 pm 
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i sure hope this works. i'm writing this on a blackberry. i just wanted to make a quick clarification. although i've a spare pair, i keep my long underware on almost the time (wool helps). i think this is normal for winter camping. it doesn't get wet, because the moisture is pushed to the next layer. i'd certainly change some of my clothes at night. the parka isn't for the middle of day when i'm moving about. just for mornings, evenings, rest stops and possibly sleeping (i'm still thinking about this one). it should never get wet, especially from sweat. if the parka did get wet at night, i would dry it the same way i would my sleeping bag. it might even dry faster because of body heat. i think the parka way would be especially good for midnight excursions. :smile:


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PostPosted: January 9th, 2003, 11:42 pm 
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Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Canada
Quote:
On 2003-01-09 09:09, mettle wrote:

in any case, i've a question for the brave winter campers. i'm guessing many of you will carry a thick parka for periods of inactivity. have you ever thought about skipping the sleeping bag and simply sleeping in your parka? :eek: do up the hood, pull in your arms and drift off? as long as you're careful about keeping things dry, i'm not sure what the downside would be. just trying to eliminate redundant weight.


The big parka and sleeping bag form an associated set of equipment that partly act as backups for each other. Especially in extreme cold, it's important to survival to have backups. What if you lose your parka and can't get home that night? What if it gets a LOT colder and you need your parka and your bag? (It's happened to me.) What if one of your party loses their gear and has to survive the night? (Has happened.) What do you have to lend them? Travelling light is wonderful, but I'd rather not cut the safety margin too close.

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PostPosted: January 10th, 2003, 8:05 am 
Just sleep naked...all is warm and good.

Jason


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PostPosted: January 10th, 2003, 8:17 am 
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Joined: March 19th, 2002, 7:00 pm
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Location: Mt Brydges, Ontario Canada
I've got a really warm 800 fill down parka, which I slept in it last winter(actually wans't even winter it was March) combined with my -5 degrees, thinsulate (2 season bag)...and I froze my nay-nays off!!!

Forget this ultralight thing....to me, it's all about the comfort!!


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