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PostPosted: January 16th, 2003, 7:11 pm 
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Joined: October 9th, 2002, 7:00 pm
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Location: Thunder bay, Ontario Canada
Re.tents and tarps!!Freestanding...has to be. I watched a guy in a site across from me in a tarp. I wasn't there when he put it up. It looked pretty cool, he put up his candle lantern and read into the nite. He said it was wonderful to be able to see everything, the stars, the sunrise the trees just everything,where in the tent he said he couldn't.I might get one and give it a try. Looks a little tricky the way you have to set it up..all those lines.. Re. the sleeping bag, winter thing. would you put your summer bag inside your winter bag and you in a fleece liner if you had any question re. freezing to death?


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PostPosted: January 16th, 2003, 9:36 pm 
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Hi Debbie,
I have always done it fleece liner, then smaller bag, then larger bag. For our three nighter it shouldn't matter too much whether down or synthetic is on the outside as long as the smaller bag is the inner. (For longer trips, see some of the above comments on bags icing up.)

The idea is to have the outer bag larger than the inner. That way the inner bag can still loft properly and not get crushed by the outer. For example, if you use a small or regular bag and you know someone who has a larger bag, borrow it and make it the outer.

I, and everyone else who has winter camped, can absolutely guarantee that you will wake up long before you get seriously cold, never mind freeze. And don't forget there will be hot tents around to warm up in if you get cold.

cheers and keep your toes warm,
Ted


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PostPosted: January 16th, 2003, 11:17 pm 
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Location: Thunder bay, Ontario Canada
I went for along walk today in the freezing cold to try out my layering and my winter boots.I was pulling my grandson who was in a wagon. I got pretty hot and started to sweat, and was wondering when do you take off your outer jacket so you are wearing the fleece pullover under it? Do you take a layer off before you start getting hot? I left my jacket on as I felt like I would get cold..was nearly home..


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PostPosted: January 17th, 2003, 9:06 am 
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Joined: July 16th, 2001, 7:00 pm
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Location: Perth, Ontario Canada
Debbie,

Yes, the idea is to remove layers before you get hot. This way you prevent sweat from soaking the layers underneath. You'll get used to estimating how many layers you need the more you go out. I always tend to over-dress, and find myself removing layers very early.

Darren


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PostPosted: January 17th, 2003, 9:43 am 
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Joined: January 15th, 2003, 7:00 pm
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Location: Superior, Wisconsin usa
I've done some winter camping. Both for the Army and personal time. Trust me when I tell you think warm. Have a bag capable of the cold weather, change before going to bed because then your new jammies can breath, open your tent fly or window slightly to let the tent breathe, forget the large dome if possible (too much volume to maintain heat)go small one-two person tent, stuff your morning cloths in the inside foot of your bag (keeps your feet warm where the bag is most susceptible and your cloths are warm in the morning), if your long johns aren't polypropylene, go buy some, eat before going to bed and as soon as you get up (your body will work from the inside to build heat naturally and eat protein, it takes the longest to digest). If your mummy doesn't fit,stuff more cloths in to remove unused volume in the bag, where a hat if you can't snugly incapsulate yourself inside your bag......Outside of that, if you don't get enough sleep because of discomfort, your body will not maintain the next day. You will be lethargic, not much appetite and then your body will become cold regardless of layers. been there done it! Winter camping can be a great time if your cozy...... I've camped in -10 with nothing but a sleeping bag on the ground and woke up cheery because I was warm and I've camped in +20 -cold and miserable without a wink. Regardless of the temp, its how you prepare.


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PostPosted: January 17th, 2003, 9:55 am 
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Location: Copper Cliff, Ontario, Canada
The trick to the layering, particularly if you're going to be working hard (climbing hills on snowshoes or pulling a toboggan) is to start out cold. Unless it's really, really cold, the first thing I do is take the jacket off completely, tuck it into the gear on the toboggan and start out in just my shirt and microfleece long-sleeved undershirt. Feels pretty chilly for the first minute or two, but after that I feel just right.

If I start out wearing my winter jacket, I'm always stopping 2 minutes later to peel it off. Like Darren says, the secret is to get the layers off before you start to sweat, not after!


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PostPosted: January 17th, 2003, 10:28 am 
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Joined: May 14th, 2002, 7:00 pm
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Location: Toronto, Ontario
i wanted to add a small point.

i think we're all use to hiking at a certain speed. when we're slower than that speed, we feel a psychological need to speed up. finding that not-too-fast, not-too-slow, not-too-hot, not-too-cold pace can be tricky. it doesn't matter so much in the summer, but in the winter it's much more important.

we sweat when we're active, even when we're cold. on short winter hikes, i've experimented wearing rainpants instead of goretex pants. i'm always fascinated by the ice buildup on the underside of the pants. the vapour can't escape. i just mention this because it's important to keep hydrated even if you never feel hot.


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PostPosted: January 17th, 2003, 10:43 am 
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Location: Big Flats, New York USA
In cold weather your body requires more food and water to help metabolize that food. Thus you are more susceptible to dehydration in winter since needs go up, thirst tends to decrease.

Dehydration in cold weather makes your more likely to get hypothermia and frostbite. See
this article.

I've had problems in the past with insomnia on the trail. I've read that dehydration can also lead to insomnia. Now that I make sure I am hydrated before getting into bed, and also take a bottle of water with me into the tent, I have very little problems getting a good night sleep. I haven't encountered any problems with increase potty runs during the night either.

Tony

PS. I just checked the forecast for my camping trip this weekend. It is supposed to be -25c tonight. I can't wait!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: maubdib on 2003-01-17 11:04 ]</font>


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PostPosted: January 17th, 2003, 2:19 pm 
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Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Canada
Just a few things to add to this excellent advice:

If your sleeping bag turns out to be inadequate, you can put your shell jacket over it, or your insulated parka. You can also put the bottom end of your sleeping bag in your backpack. Beware tight or stretch socks - you're better off without them than restrict circulation.

One very pleasant thing to do is fill a water bottle with hot water before you turn in. As long as it doesn't leak, put it down by your feet. It will go to ambient temperature later in the night, but then you'll have water available in the morning with no fuss.

If you have a campfire, a warm rock or two placed inside the tent will give off a surprising amount of heat.

During the coldest night I ever slept in, we were in an unheated mountain climbers' cabin. There was no way our body heat could warm it up. Our waterbottles, kept INSIDE our sleeping bags, froze.

No one got a healthy night's sleep, but we didn't lose any digits either. One guy got sick during the night, made a rush for the door, and didn't make it. He projectile vomited all over the inside of the door, where it flash-froze and remained for the rest of the winter. I thought you'd like to hear about that.


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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SGrant on 2003-01-17 14:25 ]</font>


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PostPosted: January 17th, 2003, 4:37 pm 
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Joined: October 9th, 2002, 7:00 pm
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Location: Thunder bay, Ontario Canada
Great info..as usual from you guys..and Grant thanks for the puck story LOL...Fleece does not break the wind so if you are wearing a fleece pullover jacket tpye of thing, what about the wind? Would you wear a wind breaker under the fleece?


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PostPosted: January 17th, 2003, 5:30 pm 
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Location: Perth, Ontario Canada
Debbie,

In general the wind jacket goes on the outside. Buy one that's large enough to go over all your layers at once, so it can fit in every situation. The fleece can trap more dead air if it's inside the windbreaker, and therefore a fleece with the windbreaker outside is warmer than the same fleece with the windbreaker inside.

However, in many cases you don't need the windbreaker, and the fleece will be just fine on it's own, so you can keep the windbreaker off unless in open country.

Darren


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PostPosted: January 17th, 2003, 6:02 pm 
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Joined: June 20th, 2001, 7:00 pm
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Quote:
On 2003-01-17 09:06, Darren Cope wrote:
I always tend to over-dress, and find myself removing layers very early.

Sometimes I run out of layers to remove. The snowshoe portage photo was staged, but the one with me pulling the sled wasn't. The temperature was below freezing & I was from working.

I wasn't that warm at last winter's gathering. I think it was partly due to being too out of shape to burn energy fast enough, partly because I was getting over a nasty cold.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: madkanuist on 2003-01-17 21:46 ]</font>


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PostPosted: January 17th, 2003, 9:33 pm 
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Joined: February 10th, 2002, 7:00 pm
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Location: Jonquière, Quebec Canada
Quote:
On 2003-01-09 09:09, mettle wrote:
have you ever seen the north face fleece with built-in heat? i was thinking, with improvements in battery technology, perhaps winter camping will be a bit easier in the future. for example, with a full body fleece, you could use a summer weight sleeping bag.


A few words about fleece with built-in fleece...

I agree it looks very appealing... except for the price :wink:

Have you thought about the possibility of a failure of the heating system? If, for some reason (batteries, wires, thermostat...), the fleece stops heating, you'll definitely need an alternate clothing system. Thus, bringing only a summer sleeping bag doesn't seem to be enough.

That's my thought. If anyone has experimented with this new type of clothing, it'd be great that they give us feed-back. Is it truly effective? reliable?


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