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PostPosted: October 19th, 2020, 7:35 am 
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tanaphar wrote:
you said you wonder how clear coat would stand up. but shouldn't it stand up the same as gelcoat? isn't clearcoat just gelcoat but clear?


I think that gelcoat is way thicker than a clear coat. I can (and have) lots of scratches on my gelcoat, but none have gone through to the kevlar layer. Comparatively, I've heard that scratches in the clearcoat (on a non-gelcoat boat) can create a layer of fuzz of kevlar threads. I'm not sure if that's true and if it is, is it bad? Is it worse than having scratched up gelcoat?

thx

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PostPosted: October 19th, 2020, 7:36 am 
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tanaphar wrote:
thanks petit,
ive heard of a lot of cases people returning prospectors. regardless manufacturer. just that rounded bottom + rocker, it seems.

so,

99% sure im going with Blue Steel (Nova Craft). 3lbs more than aramid lite. Stronger, still much lighter than my current boats, and so beautiful.


Yes, he said he felt like a leaf getting tossed around even paddling tandem. I've never asked him what style of canoe he was coming from. I just liked that Swift took an interest in him being unhappy and did what they could to fix it, and he is very happy now.

I don't really have much brand loyalty but I have been very happy with my Novacraft 16' Prospector. Mine is in Tuffstuff Expedition and on it's second gel coat so it doesn't quiet qualify for this conversation.


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PostPosted: October 19th, 2020, 4:35 pm 
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jefffski wrote:
tanaphar wrote:
you said you wonder how clear coat would stand up. but shouldn't it stand up the same as gelcoat? isn't clearcoat just gelcoat but clear?


I think that gelcoat is way thicker than a clear coat. I can (and have) lots of scratches on my gelcoat, but none have gone through to the kevlar layer. Comparatively, I've heard that scratches in the clearcoat (on a non-gelcoat boat) can create a layer of fuzz of kevlar threads. I'm not sure if that's true and if it is, is it bad? Is it worse than having scratched up gelcoat?

thx

It may vary by manufacturer but skin coat ( clear coat) is just to protect the Kevlar from fuzzing. It is nowhere near as thick as gel coat from what I have seen.


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PostPosted: October 21st, 2020, 10:16 pm 
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hi guys
thank you very much everyone for your comments,

jeffski,
what you said about clearcoat/fuzzing sounds right. esp in conjunction with remark by littleredcanoe.
also i think gelcoat can be colored (and usually is, if not always) which (i think) would help prevent UV damage.
thanks,

petit,
yes, great that swift took concern over that. Has your ToughStuff boat received a healthy beating? What are your thoughts? I've seen some videos showing it's strength. Looks good. I may get one some year. But I've also seen some nasty reviews about its gelcoat chipping off. Any issues for you?
thanks,

littleredcanoe,
ya that makes sense. I recall that gelcoat adds a couple lbs weight, and clear coat much less. Do you know if clear gelcoat is available? If I do gelcoat I think I'd just request the bottom hull, which I think you mentioned actually earlier on.
thanks,


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PostPosted: October 22nd, 2020, 5:55 am 
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tanaphar wrote:
petit,
yes, great that swift took concern over that. Has your ToughStuff boat received a healthy beating? What are your thoughts? I've seen some videos showing it's strength. Looks good. I may get one some year. But I've also seen some nasty reviews about its gelcoat chipping off. Any issues for you?
thanks,


My boat was a sponsor canoe and then a "shop canoe" used by the factory staff for outings. The staff told me it had been dropped, gone off a ledge and landed on a rock while loaded, pinned at least once and bounced off lots of shallow boulders.

The gelcoat has some spider cracks in it for me where I have hit some stuff pretty good. Just hairline stuff you have to really look for. Novacraft advised me they are normal and cosmetic mainly, only to bother repairing if it looks like a section is beaten up enough that it's de-laminating or the fibers underneath are starting to show.

I did have a dime sized section that started to do that (de-laminated and gelcoat flaking away around the edge). Repair was easy, remove loose material, apply repair kit as shown on Novacraft's youtube video. maybe a couple hours investment? The repair has held up for a few years now and you can barely tell it's even there.


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PostPosted: October 22nd, 2020, 7:14 am 
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Petit.Conan wrote:
My boat was a sponsor canoe and then a "shop canoe" used by the factory staff for outings. The staff told me it had been dropped, gone off a ledge and landed on a rock while loaded, pinned at least once and bounced off lots of shallow boulders.
.


might this be your canoe?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXsXRcR ... tthewLewis

lol
thanks petit,


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PostPosted: October 22nd, 2020, 12:03 pm 
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To me the kind of usage the OP is talking about could easily be handled by the lightest of composite canoes. No reason to get carried away with heavy duty layups.

I would personally prefer a boat without a gel coat to save weight but I'm also very comfortable doing canoe repairs so filling in any scratches that reached the cloth would be of no concern to me. But also from the usage described big deep scratches shouldn't be happening anyway.

Many people use composite and cedar strip canoes for rocky river trips running rapids. They're fine.

Alan


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PostPosted: October 22nd, 2020, 3:57 pm 
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Alan Gage wrote:
but I'm also very comfortable doing canoe repairs so filling in any scratches that reached the cloth would be of no concern to me..

Alan


How do you repair scratches that create fuzzing?

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PostPosted: October 22nd, 2020, 8:31 pm 
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Alan Gage wrote:
To me the kind of usage the OP is talking about could easily be handled by the lightest of composite canoes. No reason to get carried away with heavy duty layups.

I would personally prefer a boat without a gel coat to save weight but I'm also very comfortable doing canoe repairs so filling in any scratches that reached the cloth would be of no concern to me. But also from the usage described big deep scratches shouldn't be happening anyway.

Many people use composite and cedar strip canoes for rocky river trips running rapids. They're fine.

Alan


perfect, i'm the same exactly, i prefer to avoid the gelcoat and save the weight. And just not abuse the boat. Especially when purpose here is getting super light. Which may, ultimately, be what moves me off the BlueSteel. Though I really love the look.
Which (not getting BS) would save 500$ and 3lbs (by going with aramid lite). That $500 can go to possible repairs. Great to hear about their durability given said usage. Thanks Alan,

@ Jeffski, great question!


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PostPosted: October 23rd, 2020, 6:08 am 
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tanaphar wrote:
Petit.Conan wrote:
My boat was a sponsor canoe and then a "shop canoe" used by the factory staff for outings. The staff told me it had been dropped, gone off a ledge and landed on a rock while loaded, pinned at least once and bounced off lots of shallow boulders.
.


might this be your canoe?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXsXRcR ... tthewLewis

lol
thanks petit,


:o Thankfully not, but it still leaves me pretty impressed!


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PostPosted: October 23rd, 2020, 6:50 am 
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tanaphar wrote:
Which (not getting BS) would save 500$ and 3lbs (by going with aramid lite). That $500 can go to possible repairs.


There’s the rub, those last few pounds from light to ultra-light become pricey per pound.

I outfit my canoes, somewhat extensively perhaps, but I know what I want and need and use, for comfort, function and safety.

I am certain that I could knock a couple pounds off in outfitting weight alone. I recently installed a new center seat in my soloized Explorer. The seat I had originally installed years ago was a flat bench seat from Ed’s Canoe, not a wide frame, not heavy duty or contoured, just the most economical Ed’s center seat. I weighed it after I took it out – 2lbs 12oz.

I replaced it with a Conk seat; wide frame laminated ash and butternut – 1lb 11oz.

That Explorer is a Vermont-era hull with thick Royalex, so the 1lb weight saving made little overall difference. But in a lightweight or UL canoe that would be the equivalent of $150. If I put my mind to lightweight outfitting I bet I could shave off another couple pounds.


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PostPosted: October 23rd, 2020, 9:30 am 
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jefffski wrote:
Alan Gage wrote:
but I'm also very comfortable doing canoe repairs so filling in any scratches that reached the cloth would be of no concern to me..

Alan


How do you repair scratches that create fuzzing?


I've never had this be an issue but it shouldn't be a big deal. Just coat with epoxy and cover with peel ply (or wax paper or plastic sheeting). This will fill the scratch and cover the light fuzzies.

Alan


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PostPosted: October 23rd, 2020, 9:55 am 
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thanks again everyone for your help and thoughts,
because of you, the bruises shall be removed from my shoulders, after too many years being blue, and i may finally get a look at my natural color over there,

i will be going with Nova Craft aramid lite (45lbs) OR bluesteel (48lbs). Very hard to decide this.
I think what I'll do is find out what exactly gives the blue look.
If it's the carbon, I'll probably get it. If it's just a colored Kevlar (which I have heard somewhere) I probably will not get it. I like things maximally natural.

Does anyone know this? Or anything interesting about the BS?

Also,
Does paint (i.e., colored gelcoat) help reduce UV damage in some significant way? I have no incentive to get that coat otherwise.
I will keep it out of sun during storage.

thank you again, on helping me make this decision.
What a load off my shoulders,


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PostPosted: October 23rd, 2020, 11:47 am 
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Both clear coat and gel coat provide UV protection. Gel coat colours can fade over time, but will continue to protect the underlying resin & cloth.

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PostPosted: October 24th, 2020, 7:01 am 
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Splake
thanks a lot, good to hear,


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