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PostPosted: October 31st, 2008, 3:12 pm 
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Oh.

Epoxy, eh? Looks pretty thin for an epoxy adhesive. Particularly on woods like basswood that keep soaking and soaking and soaking...

Wonder what the "well known system" is?

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PostPosted: October 31st, 2008, 5:17 pm 
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BK..... Does West ring a bell?
Anything can be thickened to keep it from sinking into a substrate. The video shows the glue looking somewhat white... could it be that it has been frothed to make it look like that or it has maybe had a filler added to it to thicken it.....


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PostPosted: October 31st, 2008, 5:30 pm 
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I just spent a profitable ten minutes sanding my Grey Owl padle..it was all varnished and I dont want varnish on the grip and a section of shaft..so out came the sandpaper. (I prefer oil on these parts)

There is only ONE coat of varnish..apparantly the paddle got that dipping once...not enough at all..ten minutes and I was done sanding.. In my mind thats not enough.

So I am going back and pulling out the 320 grit paper and going to do the paddle five times..

Got five coats of varnish on the interior of the boat..and in 11 years its done a great job of protection.


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PostPosted: October 31st, 2008, 6:24 pm 
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how do they get the nice tip? It looked like they were just filling the bottom, not shaping it?

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PostPosted: October 31st, 2008, 6:29 pm 
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Mac wrote:
BK..... Does West ring a bell?
Anything can be thickened to keep it from sinking into a substrate. The video shows the glue looking somewhat white... could it be that it has been frothed to make it look like that or it has maybe had a filler added to it to thicken it.....


Yup, I'm well aware of that. I used to be a big West System fan but then I found out about System Three and how versatile it is.

I've used a lot of epoxy over the years and I've always used it somewhat thicker than that when using it strictly as an adhesive. I've only used colloidal silica or wood flour for thickening. The silica turns the resin translucent but never opaque white. If you add enough silica it starts to get whitish but by then it is as stiff as cookie dough. They are obviously using something else to thicken/color it.

Another thing to consider is that in hand application of glues in a production setting, a white pigment may be added as a visual aid to make sure there is 100% coverage. A small void in something as thin as a canoe paddle blade would lead to certain failure.

Anyway, whatever they are using, if it always breaks anywhere but at the glue line and doesn't come apart when wet then it's good enough for their use. That's all that really matters.

LRC, I agree, one coat of varnish isn't nearly enough for protection. Pretty spiffy varnishing set up they have, though. :wink:

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PostPosted: November 1st, 2008, 6:33 am 
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Cheryl wrote:
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how do they get the nice tip? It looked like they were just filling the bottom, not shaping it?


I think the actual shaping of the tip is done after casting and curing.

I broke off the tip on a whitewater paddle and they were able to replace it, such that it looked as good as new.


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PostPosted: November 1st, 2008, 8:13 am 
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cheryl wrote:
how do they get the nice tip? It looked like they were just filling the bottom, not shaping it?


The tip was over an inch thick at that point, the same as the entire blade. They left out all the hard work of thinning, shaping and profiling the blade. It takes more than a few deft passes on the belt sander to get rid of all that excess wood. They probably have other stationary power tools to hog off 95% of the excess and then finish off on the sanders. Hard to fit every operation into a 5 minute video segment.

I personally don't see the point of the plastic tip. It's only real function is to seal the end grain while leaving that piece sticking out to snap off on the first rock you hit. A much better solution is to use Dynel (extremely abrasion resistant) cord inlaid into edge and then to fiberglass the entire blade with 6 oz. glass. A non-glassed laminated blade is only useful for lilydipping IMHO, especially when crafted with softwoods like basswood into the laminate.

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PostPosted: November 1st, 2008, 8:43 am 
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And I didn't mean to disparage GO with my mention of one coat of varnish..

There is only so much you can expect from a 40 dollar paddle. Your own labor OTOH is cheap and so is varnish and sandpaper.

For most people who buy a 40 dollar paddle one coat might be enough for the one trip a year.


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PostPosted: November 1st, 2008, 8:48 am 
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littleredcanoe wrote:
And I didn't mean to disparage GO with my mention of one coat of varnish..

There is only so much you can expect from a 40 dollar paddle. Your own labor OTOH is cheap and so is varnish and sandpaper.

For most people who buy a 40 dollar paddle one coat might be enough for the one trip a year.


I don't mean to disparage either, but as you say varnish is cheap (especially when you by it by the 55 gallon drum) and they really could take the time to put on a couple more coats. Besides, that looks like the funnest part of the job. :wink:

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PostPosted: November 1st, 2008, 10:03 am 
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[quote="Battenkiller"][quote="cheryl"]I personally don't see the point of the plastic tip. It's only real function is to seal the end grain while leaving that piece sticking out to snap off on the first rock you hit. quote]

pk you wouldn't believe what I have put the end of my paddle thru. poled up rocky shallow rivers' for half a km, pried in and out f crap, whacked off rocks, push off and stop the canoe - I don't trip or paddle more than 15-20 days a year, but I am not careful at all with mine, and all is well. about 5 years and counting for my grey owl voyageur.

now i bought a light Souris ottertail with a thin plastic tip, and it snapped in half first push off, almost no pressure at all exerted.

so I wouldn't worry about the Grey owl tips, whatever it is works great. not saying another method wouldn't be better, but for a production paddle, no complaints.

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PostPosted: November 1st, 2008, 8:54 pm 
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Battenkiller wrote:
... It's only real function is to seal the end grain while leaving that piece sticking out to snap off on the first rock you hit. ... A non-glassed laminated blade is only useful for lilydipping IMHO,....


My Grey Owl paddles have seen thousands of miles and hundreds of rocks. My wife lillydips with hers, but I don't. My blade tip has held up extremely well, as has the rest of the paddle. Both of our paddles have cracked with time & heavy use/abuse, but I can't blame the manufacturer. In my repair process I usually add a layer of glass to the cracked area and both paddles now have glass on at least one side. For me, 4 ounce glass is perfect for that.

Cheers,
Bryan

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PostPosted: November 6th, 2008, 11:40 pm 
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Slightly off topic -

I have a laminated paddle from Voyageur that I bought about 9 years ago. Voyageur, at the time, sold paddlesports accessories, and seemed to be associated with Mad River Canoe.

I have suspected that the Voyageur paddles were made by Grey Owl, because of similarities in their looks. But this is just speculation on my part. Also I believe my paddle at one time had a sticker that said "Made in Canada". Anyone know if Grey Owl made these?


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PostPosted: November 7th, 2008, 3:00 pm 
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That was a very nice look into the process. Thanks for the video. After seeing how fast that shaper works, I'm reconsidering getting rid of mine. :D I will have to get rid of the lathe to make room for it.


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PostPosted: November 7th, 2008, 3:22 pm 
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Been Digging wrote:
Slightly off topic -

I have a laminated paddle from Voyageur that I bought about 9 years ago. Voyageur, at the time, sold paddlesports accessories, and seemed to be associated with Mad River Canoe.

I have suspected that the Voyageur paddles were made by Grey Owl, because of similarities in their looks. But this is just speculation on my part. Also I believe my paddle at one time had a sticker that said "Made in Canada". Anyone know if Grey Owl made these?


Grey Owl made some of the more reasonable Voyageur paddles, and Mitchell made some of the more expensive Voyageur paddles.

PK


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