View topic - cracking, ripping Royalex

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PostPosted: September 19th, 2005, 3:34 pm 
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Joined: July 9th, 2003, 11:48 am
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Location: Back to Winnipeg
MotorCityCanoe -

I don't know how I missed this post the first time, I was trying to answer the same questions myself at about that time.

Royalex cracks. It doesn't necessarily mean that your cleaners or adhesive are eating away at the hull (although I'm always sure to wait the recommended drying time and then some), or that your hull is delaminating.

Usually the cracks occur as yours & mine did - at places that flex a lot and take serious stress, like around thigh-strap anchors. I've also blown an anchor due to an airbag over-expanding in the sun. (Notably, I haven't had the problem with vinyl-patch d-ring anchors, only the hard palstic ones.)

Anyway, I'm writing with an update on my repair jobs, and hoping you can tell us what you did, and how it's held up?

I fixed one set of interior cracks with 3M urethane adhesive. They've held up fine over 2 years. I've since fixed similar cracks, in the same manner (stop-drill "clean"/carve, and fill), with PC7 epoxy. Those repairs cracked again right away!

So, in my experience, and contrary to advice I've received and given on these forums, I got 100% success with 3M adhesive over 2 years, and 0% success with PC7 epoxy over 2 runs - the epoxy seems too brittle.

What did you do, and how did it actually work over time?

Thanks, P.

p.s. My info from original Q&A on this is here:
http://cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic.php?t=3972

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PostPosted: September 19th, 2005, 4:54 pm 
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When you say you have had good sucess with 3M urethane adhesive do you mean what is commonly called 5200 in the boat building world?

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PostPosted: September 19th, 2005, 5:17 pm 
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Sorry, I always forget the exact product - it's some combination like 3525? 2353? 2535? About $40 for a box containing a tube of white and a tube of brown.

Subject to trying simple ol' (cheap) marine goop, I'll continue to use this (3525?) 3m "urethane adhesive" to repair cracks in Roaylex. PC7 epoxy did not work for me.

P.

p.s. I was close - went to the shed and checked - 3M's 2-part urethane adhesive that I use for Royalex repair is 3532.

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 Post subject: vinyl is final
PostPosted: September 19th, 2005, 6:07 pm 
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Joined: January 16th, 2003, 7:00 pm
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Location: Detroit, Michigan USA
Friends, boaters, countrymen;

Learn from my mistakes.

As for the incipient cracks in the interior pigment and ABS layers- I didn't drill 'em out or anything, just glued a vinyl patch over the affected area. The vinyl was from the liner of an above ground pool, and was approximately the thickness of a vinyl d-ring patch (and maybe 8"X11"). That worked fine, in that:

A. I didn't have to look at the cracks anymore, and
B. it remained watertight.

About a year later I ripped out the saddle and removed the patch with the aid of a heat gun. The cracks had widened and legthened slightly, to the point where I could sort of see the foam core. The patch kept the water out of the core, because to this day the hull has none of the 'pithy-ness' associated with rotted out foam core- in that spot...

The giant rip in the hull's interior layer of ABS is another story. I half-@$$ed it with part of a Kevlar felt skidplate kit and forgot about it. That patch flexed a lot and eventually cracked big-time. It stayed in place though, and since I could still paddle the boat and I'm lazy, I never dealt with it. When I went to sell it at the end of that season the hull seemed okay at first, and I listed it for $500 as-is- fully outfitted, but ended up chickening out on my "see-no-evil" approach to used boat sales. So...

I chipped what was left of the kevlar patch away and discovered that underneath the patch was a whole world of rotten foam core. When I'd finished, I had a frisbee sized spot in the hull where all that was left between paddler and creek was a paper thin outer layer of ABS. It wasn't worth repairing to me (it was an Ovation I'd outgrown), but I still got $200+ out of it from a whitewater noob with experience fixing Royalex tripping boats.

I'm ever faced with another massive rip that seperates the inner ABS layer from it's Royalex bretheren, I'll use the appropriate 3M Urethane two-part epoxy (3824???) and the right size patch of 1/8 ABS. If it's on a part of the hull with a fairly straightforward shape I won't even have to heat the ABS in the oven. If you try this at home, remember to sand off the thin pigment layer from the hull's inner ABS, and get the patch where you want it quickly. Oh yeah, the ABS goes hair side in.

I put a skidplate of 1/8 ABS on my Phantom AFTER crunching the $hit out of the bow, and it is bomber!


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PostPosted: September 19th, 2005, 8:37 pm 
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We had a similar problem with an Evergreen Starburst which developed cracks on the interior of the hull after a year. Evergreen -- much to their credit -- tried a repair (which we used for a second year) and then when that failed to cure the problem, offered us a replacement boat at a very, very discounted price.

It may be that the Royalex was defective to begin with, or the material was overheated during molding and became brittle.

Anyway, this problem is not unique. I would hope that Dagger would stand behind their product.


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