View topic - St. Croix Shame

Just so no one outside of Ontario misunderstands, there is a 10¢ deposit on aluminum beer cans in Ontario but not on pop cans. And I'm sure there's more pop sold in cans than beer.

Like you Erhard, I find it amazing that there isn't a deposit on all types of drink containers. Pop cans, plastic water bottles, juice tetra-paks and the like. I'd have no problem paying a deposit because I'd just return them and get my money back.

The deposit idea, to me anyway, seems to make sense as a first step in the right direction.

Dave

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I paddle the St Croix one or twice per year. I haven't found it to be much different than many of the other rivers in NB for garbage and drunk idiots. Holiday weekends, as was the case for NB on the first weekend of August, are usually the worst.

I understand that over the weekend the St Croix River Association and one of the US outfitters were doing a river cleanup. They were able to get the level lowered to make it a little easier.

On this particular river the reservation system would be unlikely to solve the problem. Most of the problem canoeists would be just on the river for the day.
A can and bottle ban may be more effective. Rangers could set up just below the put in and confiscate all the cans and bottles. I'd volunteer to help with that and dispose of the contraband.

It is a shame that such a beautiful river does get trashed like that on a regular basis. There is no easy solution to this problem but some tougher enforcement would be nice, hard and expensive to do but it would be nice.All I can say is I'm glad that there are some people that care enough to bring a little extra trash with them on the way out.I think the staff that clean the campsites should be given some credit for doing a great job. Last time i went down i was talking to two of them (one canadian and one american) and we were talking about the amount of bottles and cans that get left behind, they said one year they bought a barbeque with the deposit money.

I don't have any magic solution to this problem. When I come to a trashed campsite, I burn what can be burnt, clean up all the cans and bottles, and if there is room in my boat, I will take out trash.

That's all we can do. In the meantime, let's set a good example, and hope at least one other person will follow our lead and leave nothing but footprints.

In the meantime, I have adopted a small section of river near my home, the mouth of the Nashwaak. I've managed to remove shopping carts, tires, and other crap off the bottom. When the water's low enough, there are always a few beer cans and bottles I can reach down and pick up. It might not make even the slightest dent, but it's balsam for the soul just to make even the smallest contribution.

Gnash

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I think a lot of points have been made, but there are some points I'd like to address.

1. The St. Croix water management staff does a FANTASTIC job. In keeping the camp sites, the river in general clean and improving camp areas.
2. The main litter bugs are not canoers. Not real canoers any way. The holiday crowds are the same as the ATV crowd, and they are the biggest problems. A large number of the sites are accessible by road or trail. These sites that are generally the dirtiest.
Last year, the ATVers cut a trail into Little Falls on the Canadian side. I always camp at the bottom of the falls. Since the trail, that camp site has taken a lot of damage.

ATVers'...That's why I carry a spark plug wrench in my kit. If a few more spark plugs went missing at 4:00am it would no longer be fun to go ATVing' around canoeists.

This is a case where they need to enforce the fines. A couple burly summer interns writing $1000 tickets would more than pay for themselves, and word would get around quickly amongst the boozers. If you don't appreciate and respect the outdoors, why go in the first place?

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This is a problem all across Canada. The amount of garbage that I find in places where people should never have been is astronomical. And I don't hold out much hope. In the 70's the province funded the Junior Rangers to maintain canoe routes, collect garbage, etc, but "fiscal responsiblity" has ended that fine enterprise. As far as enforcement goes...we have two full time C.O.'s to cover a huge geographical stretch in the Geraldton area. During peak times, like the start of moose season, they will deputize a few more, but once again, the good folks at MNR have been victims of goverment cutbacks too. And I can't help but growl when I hear Bob Ray making a stab at the liberal leadership, cause he was on the cutting edge of the beginning of the eviceration of most of these government services.

What would be so wrong with spending a few million each summer to hire a bunch of kids to learn wilderness canoeing skills and keep canoe routes open and clear of garbage....anyway, just got back from a favorite spot with the 20 footer tonight....trashed, too much crap for even that canoe, will have to take a few kids and four canoes to clean up, and its an island about 100 feet by 100. Grrrrrrrr.

Here in Minnesota the state Dept. of Natural Resources started the Adopt-a-River Program (based on the Adopt-a-Highway) about 15 years ago in response to an increasing awareness of all waterways, not just our lakes, being vital to our tourism economy and state's identity. My family "adopted" a ten mile segment of a nearby wild river, and initially, we hauled out a huge amount of garbage that had piled up over the decades. Fortunately, only a mainenance clean-up is now required annually due to the limited road access to the river. From what I've seen easy motorized access equates to more garbage.

The issue becomes more problematic in backcountry areas of the U.S. outside of parks and designated wilderness areas (where park rangers and users tend to keep things pretty tidy). From what I've seen in Canada the situation is very similar, and some of the worst offenders are fly-in fishermen and ATV folks accessing lakes and streams via logging roads. It just amazes me that people can just toss so much crap into the bush. Is it really that hard to pack out your garbage, especially when you just have to plop your ass on an ATV or hop into a plane?

So who's gonna clean up the bush? We paddlers, of course! What my group does is burn whatever will burn and pack out whatever won't. On long trips we drop off garbage at fly-in outposts, figuring someone will fly it out. Fortunately, the really remote areas we prefer have mercifully little garbage.

Gordon

Sad but true. I find the best way to educate people is to show them. Remember the game when we were kids? "Follow the leader". Keep in mind, does not matter where you go in the world, there is always ignorant people and they need to be educated. Lets show them the good example.

This is one of the pre-eminent happy times rivers around. It isn't typical, and there may well be a bit of the tragedy of the comons effect based on the joint administration. I have had run ins with Americans there also, and their officials, and it seemed like they were sent that far north to hide them away when they couldn't be fired. A lot of the towns look like Dogpatch. Why bother. I mean save the river, but I wouldn't paddle it.

As far as a 10 cent deposit is concerned, the first time I paid one of those was when a chocolate bar, pop, or loaf of bread all cost 10-12 cents, gas was 39 cents a Canadian Gallon. That gets your attention, you are talking the equivalent of the 24-72 dollars deposit on a 24 of beer. Bad side of all that was that they got rid of the deposits.

It is sad nothing has changed even though Maine has charged a deposit of five cents a can and fifteen cents a bottle for ten years. Maybe if the deposit were more, the yahoos would listen.

Dogpatch is just the reality of life in Eastern Maine. The alternative is kingdom estates and no trespassing signs with aggressive property managers that make Customs agents pale in comparison.

I still would like to paddle the St Croix as its in my state but five hours away.

I know that this is a resurrected post, things, I believe have changed for the better. Have paddled the St Croix a couple of times in the last couple of years and noticed that there was very little garbage around. Certainly a lot less than before. With the added "official" sites available lots of good sites and places to get rid of garbage.

Love the river, we start up in the lakes and make a week out of it.