View topic - Esquif Canoes brings two more canoes for 2009

The Team at Esquif canoes continues to show they're the industry leaders in R&D with their material development and open canoe design. For 2009 they are introducing two new models, this will give then 28 models in their lineup. New for 2009 is the Breeze a solo tripper designed by Mark Scriver who is the Worlds most accomplished open canoeist. The Raven, yet another solo playboat designed by Bob Foote one of North America's leading white water canoeing instructors.

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Al Greve http://www.canoewateradventuring.ca South Western Ontario's canoeing specialist

Great!
Yet, I don't understand how can Mistral 17.5 weigh only 3 lbs more than Mistral (58 vs. 61 lbs)?
I like their redesigned and updated website.

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Why would they call one of their new ww solo canoes 'Raven' when Swift, for many years, produces a down-river solo WW boat called the 'Raven'?

Great way to confuse buyers or was it to cash in on the original Raven's reputation?

Proud owner of a Swift Raven.
Ted

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Ted I'm not sure why Bob Foote picked the name Raven for his playboat, you'd have to ask him. That said this boat is nothing like Swift solo tripper that isn't even in their regular production line. Also there are many boat builders out there...... just about them all at one point or another have used a name that had been used before..... How companys have used the name Prospector?

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Al Greve http://www.canoewateradventuring.ca South Western Ontario's canoeing specialist

Excellent, except that it means it will be even harder to choose as I look for a new playboat next year! I was hoping Esquif got a hold of the mold for the Rival, now that Bob's on board there, but I guessing this new Raven isn't far off.

Doug,

buy my zephyr. you will be happier. I paddled the raven at Gat Fest for a bit at the take out.

Bob is getting weirder and weirder in his designs.

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Hey Alan, a 53 lbs flatwater solo made of Royalite. Why did they not use Twin Tex for this boat. Flatwater soloing = lots of long and difficult portages. I think they should have just called it a solo tripper for both flat and running water. Do you know who, as wilderness flatwater tripping soloists, were consulted for this project?

Esquif tries hard and that is appreciated but this boat does not fit into the "flatwater solo tripping category". By today's standards it's just to heavy. Seems to me it's more in the Swift Raven/NC Supernova class than the Hemlock Peregrine/Bell Merlin II category.

Cheers,

GG

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Good news. But I will wait and see what they look like.

I am still waiting for the undesigned boat for long duration solo trips (30-50 days) that can handle a full load , no re-supply. I can and have done that in my Trailhead small tandem royalex prospector (15' 8", 34 inch beam, tumblehome, and 14 inch depth, but shallower near the sides). It’s very heavy, and a tad too long and not deep enough. Width-wise its just about perfect. I paddle Canadian classic style with an aggressive lean, but on very long trips on big water, also cruise with a sea kayak paddle leaned flat, so it can't be too wide.

I am waiting and hoping for the 15 1/2" long, 33-34 inch beam, prospector type boat, 15 inch depth, 2 inch rocker, symmetrical (so I can put the seat where I want), with fixed (bolted) center portage yolk, made of Twintex. Red twintex that is.

And the rocker should not be from the center. It should be flatter in the middle, and the rocker should be more abrupt towards the ends. That is a faster boat than a rocker from the middle, and it leans better with added benefit of a carving chine.

Gerald is right. We are all waiting for the solo expedition tripping boat in twintex. Bring it on.

I have little to no use for standard, narrow "solo" boats. They are too small for the long Arctic trips. I need a boat I can stand up in for navigating through rock gardens, photography, and fishing. And for carrying two barrels side by side, plus portage packs fore and aft, and room for a floating gun case (for griz and polar bear country), and a pelican case. I need a boat for 4 foot swells and chop on big arctic lakes, and for staying afloat running C3’s with big haystacks fully loaded (with spray deck of course). Wood gunwales. I need a small and narrow tandem type boat (but not tandem), that is under 60 pounds, preferably under 50.

Still waiting.

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Well guys as much as I would love to see true expedition solo tripper out of Twin Tex its not in the cards. It comes down to how many boats they think they'll sell with a certain design. Solo boats as you know are a small percentage of the overall canoe market, expedition solo boats are even smaller. The cost to build a mold for Twin-Tex can only be done for boat models in which they'll sell high volumes. The molds are expensive! Royalex molds on the other hand.......not so!
The Breeze was designed as flatwater short trip solo tripper/ weekend tripper, even to meet the needs of the cottage/ fisher crowds.
The Breeze..... is it a boat that will paddle well???? You can believe it......Mark knows how to paddle and he knows what attributes will make his design do what he wants his attended usage to paddle like.

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Al Greve http://www.canoewateradventuring.ca South Western Ontario's canoeing specialist

I'd tend to agree with Gerald... the Breeze is a weird boat. It reminds me of Dagger's Sojourn, which was a well designed flatwater tripping solo in Royalex that really did what it was designed for well. It tracked well, it was fast, and it was significantly lighter than the Breeze. I think it was 14'9." Lot's of people seem to say they like it, but few seem to hang onto it. Dagger never sold many, but they are reaonably common on both Paddling.net and Ebay.

The concept of a more resonably priced royalex solo sounds good on the surface. But I'm not sure it works as well in reality, and with the US Dollar so weak, it's going to be hard to compete on a cost basis in the States. Even full river tripping solos like Swift's Raven never really sold real well, and that boat is much more usable in whitewater or river tripping conditions.

I wish Esquif great luck with the Breeze, but I don't see a royalex flatwater canoe making a serious mark against what already exists in composite.

As to the Raven, I haven't paddled one, but it seems that less and less people are paddling the stuff Bob loves to paddle and builds boats to paddle, and more and more are heading a different direction. While there were a fair number of Genesis and Rival lovers, it seems like the Phantom, Prodigy, and Paradigm haven't been big economic success stories in a very small whitewater playboat market.

But I'd love to paddle both boats, and I'll pass judgement on them from a paddling perspective at that time.

PK

Alan said: Swift solo tripper that isn't even in their regular production line. The Swift Raven is on their website and you can buy a new one anytime you want. The Swift Raven has a history, a cache and there are hundreds out there.

The prospector name comes from a generic style, not an specific canoe. How many Vertige, Detonator, Taureau and Nitro are made more than one company?

Edit: this part removed as it was pointed out by several members that I was wrong. I wanted to use strikeout but unsure how.

Ted

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To be fair, there are a number of canoes out there with the same name. I don't have time to search at the moment, but J. Winters has an 18 footer called a Quetico. Souris canoes also has a Quetico in a couple of different lengths. To make matters even more confusing, I think John had a previous model called a Quetico that was a canoe under 16 feet. Pretty sure I've seen a couple of different brands of Osprey's out there too. Or perhaps the Raven is an intentional name copy...it would be interesting to know why the name was chosen.

Hi Ted.... I would have leaned towards agreeing with you except for one thing..... I've seen the Esquif Raven up close.....
I don't think it's a direct competition for the Swift product;
In fact I don't think the subset of canoe purchasers are even the same. No infringment
I don't know alot about boats but this new Raven is an odd looking fish.....
there must be a market for smaller canoes.....first the pocket canyon and now this new Breeze. Maybe the family who doesn't need a full second tandem and wants the second canoe to fill several niches? Just guessing here. Just because a boat like the Bell's exist doesn't mean that they are easy to obtain in other markets?

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I don't think at all that Esquif is making any attempt to capitalize on a name.

There are several Otters(Old Town, Swift) and Herons(Swift, Sawyer kayak) and Loons(Swift, Old Town) and Mistrals(Esquif, Loon Works) made by different companies.

I am sure there are many more but thats all I can think of off the top of my head.

I've removed the incorrect part in the above post (with a notation) as it shouldn't stand. Thanks for correcting me. Misconception as not good.
I still don't like the idea much but maybe I just confuse easily.
cheers Ted

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