View topic - Long hulls for Canadian Solo.

Out of curiousity... I often solo paddle Canadian style, heeled well over. What is it that defines a good hull for this? I'm thinking I could move a 18'6" hull along at a good pace if I have the advantage of the narrow waterline profile when heeled. I expect the longer waterline profiles would be better for outside-edge turns. Would a flared and concentrated mid-section give me back the responsive inside-edge turns? I'm thinking along the lines of a Wenononah Sundowner, Sawyer Charger, or Jensen WW2 type of craft.
Thank-you for any insight you can provide.
Daniel

I knew someone who did epic long distance canoe travel (Inuvik to Gulf of Mexico, etc.) solo paddling a Clipper Jensen WW2. Worked for him.

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Brian
http://www.JohnstonPursuits.ca

 

Has he written about his experiences Brian? I'd love to give it a read, or speak with him.
Daniel

I think that in general you look for boats with nice gently rounded shoulders and also some nic gentle font o rear curvature (rocker). So Prospectors are ideal since they are gently round side to side and also front to rear. When leaned they become a "smaller boat" in terms of their footprint on the water...plus they still behave predictably when leaned a little more or less because the gently rounded shape never changes suddenly.

The Wenonah Argsoy and Rendezvous solos are a good contrast. They are efficient paddling straight ahead when vertical but they have sharp, square-edged center sections and they will both scare the bejeezus out of you when leaned.

The WWII looks terrible for Canadian style with zero rocker and sharp shoulders. Probably a fine choice for solo tripping with huge loads when paddled level but I'm willing to bet a dollar that it wasn't paddled leaned over.

When you are leaned over with the ends out of the water I'm not sure you'll get the speed benefits of a longer canoe. If you are near a Clipper dealer you might test one of their longer Prospectors.

No he haven’t.

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Brian
http://www.JohnstonPursuits.ca

 

“ The WWII looks terrible for Canadian style with zero rocker and sharp shoulders. Probably a fine choice for solo tripping with huge loads when paddled level but I'm willing to bet a dollar that it wasn't paddled leaned over.

When you are leaned over with the ends out of the water I'm not sure you'll get the speed benefits of a longer canoe. If you are near a Clipper dealer you might test one of their longer Prospectors.”

Good points here. Best to test the Clipper WWII/Wenonah Minnesota II and compare it to a more traditional style canoe when heeled over.

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Brian
http://www.JohnstonPursuits.ca

 

agreeing with daypaddler here. you would want a boat that is fairly soft and rounded in the bilge to sides for the transition from upright to heeled. an 18+ long canoe would be massive to solo, even for a big guy and would be prone to wind something fierce. if you solo a lot, perhaps a dedicated solo boat is in order? sounds like you need to demo where possible.

I'm sorry for muddying this thread up by mentioning commercial models. I was trying to use them as a (poor) example. I'm hoping to nail down a group of attributes that are complimentary, and will give me the theoretical hull that best serves me. If it doesn't exist, I have the ability to build it.

I've some fairly solid experience in long, very skinny kayaks in exposed coastal conditions. The seas here tend to be short-period, and choppy, over a larger swell, with confused current up to 7knots - OR large volume and period swell with long fetch wind-waves on top - when I'm paddling on the outside.

symmetrical
rounded-hull
length 18'6"
beam 30"
performance load of 500lbs.
rocker 3-4" starting close to center position

i'm doubtful such a highly specialized canoe with the given dimensions exists, and there's a lot of specialized canoes out there. Wenonah isn't afraid to explore the niches. if you build it, pictures would be awesome.

Wenonah would be the closest that would build to that length and width but 3-4 inches rocker sounds more like Esquif. ( but those are wider) The Mistral is their longest canoe but at 37 inches wide.
However in Canadian style why does the flat width matter?

I have Canadian style soloed a Wenonah Odyssey ( deepwater version of the MN II). The stems do come up out of the water even though it technically lacks rocker. It has quite a bit of side rocker and depth so Heeled way over the stems are loose. Begs the question of pack ejection and windage.. At 18.5 feet it is very sensitive to wind and you have to heel way over almost to the rail to unstick the stems. Seems a very tenuous way to canoe trip.

symmetrical
rounded-hull
length 18'6"
beam 30"
performance load of 500lbs.
rocker 3-4" starting close to center position

this boat does not currently exist.

I came across a youtube video of Sue Plankis very recently. In it, she finishes in a birch-bark canoe by Ferdy Goode. A beautiful, practical, and unusual craft.

Hello all,
I purchased a Duralite Hellman Prospector, and have been very happy with her. I've found her very suitable for the solo-paddling I've been doing along the east-coast of Vancouver Island, and have been using her extensively. I live six months a year in a remote cabin, on a sparsely occupied island in the Discovery Islands, and paddle through the tidal-rapids of Surge Narrows as part of my commute to work on another island. She handles current very well, and winds fairly well. With a following sea, she shines. She seems a bit doggy plowing into the wind and waves. I've just paddled her 350 miles back to Victoria, the reverse of my trip North April 1st. Seven days of paddling, averaging 50 miles per day. I haven't paddled her tandem so can't speak to that.

She's quite fast when I push myself, and cruises along nicely when I don't. I paddle Northwoods-style 90% of the time. Finding the sweet-spot on edge took me awhile, but once I'm in the groove, it's like paddling a much narrower and faster canoe. It seems that peaky, four-foot waves are about my limit for this hull, I take on a bit of water when the bow plunges into troughs, not much, maybe half a gallon. Broaching was still controllable even in these conditions. Build quality was good, and I'm now seriously considering purchasing a Hellman Duratuff Slocan to serve as my pick-up truck up there.

The poor Prospector was taken for a joy-ride from where I had left her in Victoria for three days - city-people aren't as respectful or trustworthy as tiny-islanders - and was returned with a slew of new scratches, and an almost-puncture. Looks like it was dragged down a logging-road behind a car. Nothing gel-coat can't cover but still...

Freestyling in her is fun, she side-slips beautifully. I only wish she had slightly more rocker, and a longer curve to the chine - hence the Slocan. At 34" beam, with finer-ends, she's efficient. A reasonable compromise. Closest thing to her I've paddled is the Chesnut Cruiser. They're similiarly-shaped. Those fifty-mile days were easier, and far more comfortable, than in my last kayak. I spent a bit more time on the beach waiting out the white-caps though. She seems a bit more trim-sensitive, than other canoes I've tried - I like that though - moving a fifty pound pack forward and back is enough to change the canoe's behaviour quite dramatically. The ideal performance seems to be at about 350-450 pounds. I'd recommend this canoe for experienced solo-paddlers, she can be a bit of a handful when the breeze picks-up, though I found throwing her up on edge, I could tack upwind, and up-current quite nicely. I took the seats out as I paddle kneeling, bum resting on the bow-thwart, and found her very light to portage.

I found Hellman easy to do business with, the delivery was quick, the canoe well-packed for shipping, and the price very fair.